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LP vs Gas generator

elkdroppingelkdropping Member Posts: 728 ✭✭✭
edited July 2010 in General Discussion
Considering a generator. I was thinking about the potential advantages/disadvantages of LP vs gasoline models. Going to use it for blackout back up for sump pump, furnace blower & well pump, & few lights. Not a whole house application, just back up, subsistance. Any opinions and or experience, models, size, recommendations? Budget wise I would like to be in the $600 - $1000 range. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks guys!!!

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    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Like any gasoline engine with today's fuel 10% ethanol[:(] you should not store the generator with fuel in it for over 30 days. The gas lines will go bad develop leaks and Carb. will gum up. We have seen a rash of both walk behind mowers and lawn tractors in our shop that have had engine fires . I don't know if you can find a LP generator anywhere close to your price range[:(].LP is the way to go for low maintenance and knowing it will start when needed. Make sure everything you want to use is the correct voltage. Again most generators in your price range are 110 volt only and Things like pumps ETC are most times 220. volt . Too small of a generator will burn out motors . I always suggest bigger then you think you Need.
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    elkdroppingelkdropping Member Posts: 728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Perry, didn't slow down enough to think about 220 vs. 110. It looks like I need to up my budget. Looks to me like that once you get to 220, the prices of portable generators catch up to the permanent standby type?
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    S3kshun8S3kshun8 Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No carbon wear from LP

    17k for 2500sq ft and central air
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    slipgateslipgate Member Posts: 12,741
    edited November -1
    http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/

    220 volts are cheap too. I got my Generac 5500 watt for under $500 shipped. It can run my whole house sans A/C.
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    GRIZZLY17GRIZZLY17 Member Posts: 1,676
    edited November -1
    I was also looking at these recently.

    To small for my need though....


    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200360137_200360137
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    likemhotlikemhot Member Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am still shopping for the right one for the cabin and have found several of interest at

    http://www.generatordepot.us/gentron-pro2-6000p-propane-generator-electric-start.aspx

    Good luck
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    fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    First off, Gen. come in 115V and 230V. Also, u should look into a "tankless elect". water heater.Most use 2/230V connections but, only use 1,as long as feed water temps are above 40*F..Hot showers,when the power is down, is a GOOD THING...(specially if u have city water that's still on)
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Depends where your thought are.

    Propane is not man portable. You need a truck to ship it.

    I can fill my truck with 5 gallon cans, a fuel tank, ect.

    I have NO way to haul propane.


    I try to look in the future of "just in case".

    I can allways find a way to transport gas. It is limited how I can transport propane.
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    bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by slipgate
    http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/

    220 volts are cheap too. I got my Generac 5500 watt for under $500 shipped. It can run my whole house sans A/C.


    That is the place I got my Generac for my motorhome in AK. They shipped the sucker there, freight paid, saving me over a grand. Nobody even came close to their price!
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The first problem you have is to decide what problem you want to solve.

    Some here are giving advice on generators for when the end comes. If that is not the problem you are attempting to solve then you need to come up with specific criteria that you want this generator to work under.

    If it is just a generator to solve an occasional power outage that is a simple problem, and an LP or natural gas generator of sufficient wattage would solve the problem. That other problem to solve is how to incorporate the generator power into you home. Manual or automatic transfer. For that you will need a electrician.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    evileye fleagalevileye fleagal Member Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    both buy the gas then the lp plate so you can use it wiht what you have.
    i went with a refub. coleman 7500 /10000 surge.
    still going good br/sta parts are easy to come by
    an i can load it in the pick up alone

    not as easy as once could but can still get it up an in.
    i think i gave 649.00 some tool sale that comes through once a year.
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    evileye fleagalevileye fleagal Member Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    also very very IMPORTANT is back feeding

    your lineman will hate you an might burn you out for it.

    if you dont kill one of them while they are out in the cold rain or whatever kind of weather tryin to get your lights on.

    some think you can get by with killin your main then tiein in with a couple of breakers this will work .

    but please dont jackleg this part of it
    a postive dicconet is best
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    slipgateslipgate Member Posts: 12,741
    edited November -1
    Where is the, "Jeez not this s**t again" picture when you need it!
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    ForkliftkingForkliftking Member Posts: 4,907 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can I wire a portable generator up to my house easily?[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by slipgate
    Where is the, "Jeez not this s**t again" picture when you need it!


    You asked, so I shall comply:
    notagain1.jpg
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,435 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    evil, I don't understand. I am interested in a gen also & thought if I pulled the big main breaker on top of my box I would be isolated from the supply & not be in danger to the linemen. Is this not true?
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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    proappproapp Member Posts: 3,264
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by forkliftking
    Can I wire a portable generator up to my house easily?[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]


    kill the main and plug the gen into your dryer outlet to power the house circuits, easy......
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    HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    If you can work safely in your Breaker box, and can safely install/remove a breaker, then You can wire the Transfer Panel yourself. They are available in Kits. Look around your house and write down the absolute minimum you can get by with.

    Don't forget Septic pump if you have one. Sump pump under the house, likewise.

    Microwave can do most if not all cooking, if you don't have Gas for cooking.

    Don't buy a generator for your Electric range. I would not buy one for an electric water heater either, but I have Gas.

    Water well is the load that forces most folks into the big generators. You gotta have water.

    I have a Large Home, but I can run the whole shebang on limited circuits under or around 2KW, so my 5500 watt Cheapie Contractor quality Genset handles the load easily, with lots of headroom for incidental loads and/or Ham Radio loads 2KW+[:D][:D] if necessary.

    I have Solar Panel/Battery system as an alternate power source, with Inverters fo 120VAC. Then I have 12VDC system for reserve/emergency lighting, welding, etc.
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    HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    <sheepish> - guess I did not reply on point to OP, so here it is:

    If you have Natural Gas Piped in, then get a permanent set-up for the whole house.

    You will have to run whatever generator once a month for Half an Hour, UNDER FULL LOAD, in order to make sure it is always ready. You have to do this regardless of which fuel you use.

    If you only have Propane/Gasoline available, I rate that as a flip of a coin. Propane to some degree, (and Natural Gas to a greater degree,) require derating the generator. That means that if your required load is 10KW then a 10KW Gasoline generator would juuuust handle it, but you would have to step up to a generator engine that is larger if you used Propane, and larger still if using Natural gas.

    Those translate into higher costs.

    Propane and natural gas gensets need less maintenance ON THE MOTOR END, but still require maintenance on same schedule at the Generator end.

    Propane Gensets can be difficult to get running in extreme cold weather.

    My choice of Contractor quality genset makes it more portable, cheaper to replace. Will probably need replacement more often.

    You pick.
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    wild cat manwild cat man Member Posts: 524 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ever think about diesel another option
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    HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    Yep - Diesel, with Mechanical Injector, can be made to run perectly on BIODIESEL = inexhaustable supply, even after SHTF.

    Diesel gensets are Heavy, and Expensive, relative to the others.

    They are more efficient on fuel/power.
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    GRIZZLY17GRIZZLY17 Member Posts: 1,676
    edited November -1
    Wheres all the deep fryer oil gonna come from after the SHTF to make bio out of?

    Can you make that stuff out of regular waste oil?

    Also not to hijack but I was going to do the "flip the main and plug into the dryer outlet" thing. Is this a bad idea? If so why.
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    HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    Open main Breaker and backfeed through the Dryer breaker is OK, SO LONG AS FULL LOAD TO HOUSE IS LESS than Dryer breaker rating!!

    Make sure you have a HEAVY conductor cord from Genset to Dryer outlet, and that Outlet is TIGHT - if loose, you get a fire.

    Also keep in Mind that when you backfeed, the Arc Quench feature of your Dryer Breaker will be severely compromised, as the ARCS that happen when a breaker opens are supposed to come from the "LINE" contacts, Not the LOAD side (as when you backfeed). Could get a FIRE there too.

    is really a pretty compromised way to have power.
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    HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    As far as oil, yep, veggie oil will be difficult, but available - if power is out, there are vats at any Fast food store, both fresh and used. Big Box stores will have big jugs of it not bought out during emergencies.

    In a real pinch, you can use all sorts of oils to run a diesel - DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC! it will not ignite easily enough! and run at reduced power.

    For long term, Diesel is a little better than Gasoline - Gasoline lasts no more than 6 months, Diesel stores well for about a Year.

    LP and Natural gas are always good, no matter how long stored.
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    fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by HandLoad
    Open main Breaker and backfeed through the Dryer breaker is OK, SO LONG AS FULL LOAD TO HOUSE IS LESS than Dryer breaker rating!!

    Make sure you have a HEAVY conductor cord from Genset to Dryer outlet, and that Outlet is TIGHT - if loose, you get a fire.

    Also keep in Mind that when you backfeed, the Arc Quench feature of your Dryer Breaker will be severely compromised, as the ARCS that happen when a breaker opens are supposed to come from the "LINE" contacts, Not the LOAD side (as when you backfeed). Could get a FIRE there too.

    is really a pretty compromised way to have power.
    BUT... It DOES work just fine.U stated in the OP that it was for temp. outages, and only to GET BY...GO BIG on the feeder lead,ALWAYS disconnect the MAIN first .NO WORRIES!!!
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    shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,815 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by S3kshun8
    No carbon wear from LP

    17k for 2500sq ft and central air


    he said $500-1000 range not $4000 range

    not everyone has $4000 plus all the extras to hook it up including tanks, and fuel....I'd love to have a 14k-17k generac but it was almost $6000 installed turnkey
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    ForkliftkingForkliftking Member Posts: 4,907 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by proapp
    quote:Originally posted by forkliftking
    Can I wire a portable generator up to my house easily?[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]


    kill the main and plug the gen into your dryer outlet to power the house circuits, easy......

    This was a joke post. Actually I tie mine in to my welder plug in my detached garage.
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