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GB Entrepreneurs....

Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
edited May 2015 in General Discussion
Fella's:

I have the opportunity to buy a former muscle car restoration business. We have been pulling parts out of this place for nearly a month and are still not halfway there. The buy-in for the remnants of the business which went under because the owner got messed up in drugs was under $50,000 and has already doubled the investment and has the potential to produce another $200,000 easily in very nice rare Pontiac GTO and Olds 442 parts.

Once the three buildings are cleared, I have the opportunity to buy all three buildings (see below) for $110,000. The facilities are near KC and include nearly a block of the down-town area. I don't know a lot, but I think it's a good deal. I am interested in re-opening the business and thinking this would be a great opportunity to take soldiers who are getting out/retiring, who are hard-working, honest, reliable, intelligence young men and work them into the restoration profession. I can go in as a partner with a guy who knows more about GTOs and 442's anyone I've ever met. He has restored numerous rare cars and has been a concourse judge. He knows 4-5 guys who are experienced in the restoration business and looking for another job in the business.

I've never owned a business and this is a big step for me. I have friends who can help me develop a business plan, and I would like to use a veteran's grant/loan to do this and am also interested in seeing if I can gain some assistance for hiring wounded warriors and honorably retired service-members.

This is the first day I have considered purchasing the property which is fully equipped to restart a formerly profitable business. I am truly in uncharted waters and appreciate any insight/advice/guidance you guys can provide.

I am considering retirement from the US Army in the next 2-3 years and would love to start a business which employs incredible soldiers and allows me to work in a profession I truly enjoy and am passionate about.

Business%20Potential_zpsgziypjlx.png

Thanks in advance for your help.

NS

Comments

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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
    Fella's:

    I am interested in re-opening the business and thinking this would be a great opportunity to take soldiers who are getting out/retiring, who are hard-working, honest, reliable, intelligence young men and work them into the restoration profession.
    NS


    While that is quite admirable, are you going to be running a profitable business, or a jobs program? If you can get some government school money out of the vets then by all means take them in and get them trained. Otherwise, establish your business and make some money for yourself before you start thinking about becoming a training center.

    quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker


    I can go in as a partner with a guy who knows more about GTOs and 442's anyone I've ever met. He has restored numerous rare cars and has been a concourse judge.



    Business%20Potential_zpsgziypjlx.png

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    NS


    Sure, he knows all about cars, but has he ever managed a car restoration business...Or any business? You are clearly a neophyte; so who has the hands on experience in handling the day to day grind of running a business?

    Remember, if owning your own business and making money while doing it (that is the trick) were easy, then everyone would do it.
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    Ditch-RunnerDitch-Runner Member Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    just me . sounds like something I would like .
    but being realistic running a business ,getting great help and building a reputation for doing outstanding work would be what it takes .
    to get the people needed to do that level of work and get customers in the door will be a challenge .
    myself I would be so far over my head trying to run a business . just the thought of book keepers , lawyers, insurance , running cost of tools and equipment the EPA , and the customers who are never satisfied .. not trying to scare you but that's what I see and why I would not take that big step in a restoration shop ,
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    proappproapp Member Posts: 3,264
    edited November -1
    you've found the only ship that won't float..

    a partnership JMHO. I wish the best for you.

    I've started/bought several businesses and will

    never get on that boat again.
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    Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    FCD: That building holds the two paint booths and the two wash booths for the paint booths.

    NSquote:Originally posted by Flying Clay Disk
    What is the rectangular building with the (4) white units on the rust colored roof?

    Just a general observation; aside from the question above, I don't see a lot of mechanical equipment on the roofs of the other buildings (i.e. exhaust fans, etc).

    I see two condensing units on the roof adjacent to the rectangular building which I take for A/C units, but they look like smaller units certainly nothing which would handle the whole building (of that size).

    Based on what I see in the picture, I'd be looking carefully at what mechanical infrastructure exists and what will be required and how big the incoming power service is to each building. This is where you'll spend the big money if something isn't up to snuff.

    Otherwise it sounds like a great deal.

    P.S. I see virtually zero mechanical on the blue/grey building, and the same on the remote building in the lower left. How are these two structures purposed?

    Just honest observations.
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    Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I already have my own shop, have a business name and LLC and have plans to open it someday. Biggest problem I'm having is deciding what direction to go.

    Restorations, tons of money up front with tons of man hours. It can take months to complete one car, employees want to get paid and do not want to wait for completion.

    Body shop, this is my main focus since body work and paint can pay well but still the time involved before payout is high.

    Hotrodding, something I love dearly but to be competitive you need your own machine shop and tons of overhead.

    Since the TV shows the number of shops have grown tremendously, the competition and the ever so fluctuating cost of the cars will make it rough.

    I may just do it as a hobby, buy a car and do the work. Sell it and do another. Hobby.

    Right now I'm turning to the only thing in life I'm good at, trucking. Once I find the perfect truck (price vs year) I will be buying a second truck. My son will be driving for me, he will be the my test dummy. If I can make it work I'll be expanding with the hopes of being a leased fleet owner and be able to get out of the truck myself and then concentrate on L&Bs.
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    Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
    Fella's:

    I am interested in re-opening the business and thinking this would be a great opportunity to take soldiers who are getting out/retiring, who are hard-working, honest, reliable, intelligence young men and work them into the restoration profession.
    NS


    While that is quite admirable, are you going to be running a profitable business, or a jobs program? If you can get some government school money out of the vets then by all means take them in and get them trained. Otherwise, establish your business and make some money for yourself before you start thinking about becoming a training center.

    quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker


    I can go in as a partner with a guy who knows more about GTOs and 442's anyone I've ever met. He has restored numerous rare cars and has been a concourse judge.



    Business%20Potential_zpsgziypjlx.png

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    NS


    Sure, he knows all about cars, but has he ever managed a car restoration business...Or any business? You are clearly a neophyte; so who has the hands on experience in handling the day to day grind of running a business?

    Remember, if owning your own business and making money while doing it (that is the trick) were easy, then everyone would do it.
    Thanks Mark.

    The muscle car business is crazy. Here are 40 heads (20 sets) some are W-30 heads, nearly all are big valve heads. This trailer has nearly $36.000 on it. Not quite like the gun business.

    image1_zpsyukwedtq.jpg

    NS
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    Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    BTW, I have at least three more trailers to pull out of there!

    NS
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    babunbabun Member Posts: 11,054 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think you are over pricing those heads.

    $16,000 / 20 sets= $800 a set.

    lets break them down a bit.....

    The Pontiac's= you have probably 10 sets of which say 7 are "big valve" CORES at $200 a set. Maybe 2 sets of Ram air 3 heads at
    $400 a set. And if you are lucky 1 set of Ram air 4 heads at $600.

    Doubt you have any Ram air 5 heads there.[V]
    That makes a total of $2800.

    On the olds heads=

    7 sets of "big valve" CORES at $200 a set. 3 sets of w-30 head cores at $400 a set.

    That makes a total of $2600.

    Both make $5400 IF YOU CAN SELL THEM.

    Now think how many are cracked /beyond a valve job??

    A ready to go, from the machine shop Ram air head WITH the right numbers and letters can get $800 a pair. None of those are in that condition.
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    skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    Word of caution on partners. It is a rare thing when partnerships work out. When I was younger I partnered up with a good friend and opened a small wood shop making small furniture items. We did this after coming home from our day jobs. I would get off work and start manufacturing and assembling the parts required. He created elaborate inventory tracking systems and began teaching himself auto cad and 3D solid modeling.

    In his mind an hour of him on the computer was equal to an hour of me working at actually building product. Bear in mind that every shop drawing we produced was also done by me on a tablet of graph paper with #2 pencils and a straight edge and 2 triangles. He was a reasonable guy and a good friend but we could never see eye to eye on the value of him learning auto cad to design 3 board shelves. Someone always works harder than the other guy and resentment can build.

    If you do the math and are convinced this is a viable business opportunity then figure out how to do it yourself. If you need his help offer him a job but retain control of the business for yourself.

    I am not trying to dissuade you from this project but realize during the contemplation phase you are in right now it is normal to look at the project through rose colored glasses. Really guard against subconsciously fudging the numbers/projections in an effort to make it work and minimizing any hurdles.

    Best of luck to you!
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    GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    I have been in a partnership for 14 years. It's like a marriage, you have to both try to make it work. Not all end in failure.
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    gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,096 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I met a guy who is very successful in restorations.
    Customer brings in a car.
    The estimate for the build is given.
    Customer pays 25% up front. after the 25% is spent the customer comes in, sees progress and missed rust, damage, etc from original estimate and pays another 25% of new balance. And so on.
    That way, the shop owner isn't carrying the whole rebuild and when the car is completed and the customer is called, no one is surprised by the $90,000 price tag!! I've heard horror stories of small independent shops sitting on 3-4 builds in the 6 figure range just waiting for the customer to pay.
    Throw in "change of heart", divorce, economic downturn, college, dead uncle, etc!
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    Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    I guess I should have provided more information about the heads in order for you to make a more well-informed opinion. The heads came out of a bankrupt "muscle car" shop- which restored primarily 442's and GTO's- was open for nearly 30 years. The reason these heads were saved was they were worth it. These are not Olds "J" heads and/or Pontiac "94" heads.

    Over on Fleabay, there are four sets of Ram Air III heads: $899, $999, $1,000, $1350. I don't see any W-30 heads on there.

    If you can buy Olds W-30 heads and Pontiac RA components for "$200 a core"... man I would do it!!!

    NS

    quote:Originally posted by babun
    I think you are over pricing those heads.

    $16,000 / 20 sets= $800 a set.

    lets break them down a bit.....

    The Pontiac's= you have probably 10 sets of which say 7 are "big valve" CORES at $200 a set. Maybe 2 sets of Ram air 3 heads at
    $400 a set. And if you are lucky 1 set of Ram air 4 heads at $600.

    Doubt you have any Ram air 5 heads there.[V]
    That makes a total of $2800.

    On the olds heads=

    7 sets of "big valve" CORES at $200 a set. 3 sets of w-30 head cores at $400 a set.

    That makes a total of $2600.

    Both make $5400 IF YOU CAN SELL THEM.

    Now think how many are cracked /beyond a valve job??

    A ready to go, from the machine shop Ram air head WITH the right numbers and letters can get $800 a pair. None of those are in that condition.
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    select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To get the word out you have to restore a car or two..even your own and sell it ,like at a large auction. It must be perfect. Amos Minter in Texas does T birds and he is the best in the business. There are lots of avenues you can do having those buildings. Speed Shop, Painting, street rods / mods. One step I would advise to get known.. SEMA. Make yourself something different and apply. If you do well there or just get accepted word is out. You may very well be the next gas monkey.. or corn monkey. Another little secret.. If you can sell or get someone famous to buy a car.. home run. Good luck and run with it. May start out slow and don't expect too much too soon. Time is your partner not someone else. Go it alone.
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    jev1969jev1969 Member Posts: 2,691
    edited November -1
    Will those Olds parts be going online? I know someone that specializes in Oldsmobiles. Particularly from the 60's.
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    JamesRKJamesRK Member Posts: 25,670 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It looks to me like you've made your decision so I'll just wish you the best of luck, although luck has very little to do with it.

    I'll have to agree with a couple of others about partners. Back in the early 1970s I was a business partner with a man I thought I knew and liked. He made a pretty good living. I was lucky to get out with most of my original investment.

    On the other hand, Sears & Roebuck seemed to have done all right.
    The road to hell is paved with COMPROMISE.
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    rambo rebelrambo rebel Member Posts: 4,028
    edited November -1
    and remember - inside or outside city limits you will have a lot of EPA regs when dealing with cars.

    one reason its almost impossible to open a junk yard these days unless you are a mega yard/biz.


    I'd almost rather buy the equipment and build a shop on privately owned land in the country. at least 5 miles outside any city limits. if you are good they will come to you.

    restore a few "privately" for customers or do a couple to take to the classic car auctions or sell through the bay or similar. if you do em right your name will get around. in that biz your reputation is more important than location.
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    JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Buildings wont make you rich over night but they are capable of generatIng a lot of pocket cash over time.
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    kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good luck if you decide to make a go of it. My stepfather was a business partner for about 30 years and it worked out very well for them.
    What's next?
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    babunbabun Member Posts: 11,054 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ""On the other hand, Sears & Roebuck seemed to have done all right.""


    IIRC... Roebuck worked for Sears for a few years as a watch repairman.

    They were partners for only 2 years before J. Rosenwald {sp} bought out Roebuck and made it the retail mail order giant.

    One of his ideas was to make the Sears catalog smaller outside to outside edge than his competitors.

    WHY???

    When you stack books on top of each other....the smallest one is
    usually on TOP!!

    The Sears catalog the first catalog you would pick up.[:D][^]



    Back to the heads...

    On ebay, completed auctions, only 1 set of RA 3 heads sold recently, at $800 ready to bolt on.

    Everyone else can ASK what ever price they want, but it won't sell, just like the gun business.[;)]

    The hottest thing with Olds heads today, is "REPLICA" heads.
    Tell the seller what letter, date, casting numbers you need and for $1200 you got a set "made" for your engine. $744 for empty castings. Not too kosher if you ask me, but it's the way of things today.[V]
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    My own experience with a business partner was fine, but a lot of that had to do with the fact that he has been my best friend since our first year of high school. It also helped considerably that we both worked together at the same gun store before starting a store of our own, and each of us knew the gun business quite well. Even so, in the case of a two person partnership: Someone has to handle the technical details and someone has to take care of the boring (but vital) nuts and bolts of managing the business. It sounds like you've already got the technical guy all lined up, so who is going to actually run the business? You? Too many small businesses are started by so called "enthusiasts" who end up running them too much like a big hobby and not enough like a business trying to make money. The hobbyist slant is great if you are already financially secure and just looking for a diversion or a chance to pal around with other enthusiasts at a higher level...And don't mind losing a few bucks (or a tens of thousands) along the way.

    The guns business is filled with the hobbyists, and most of them close up shop pretty darned quick. I suspect that car and car related businesses are the same.
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    OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,519 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have read a few responses. My only advice is, DO NOT GO INTO A PARTNERSHIP WITH ANYONE EXCEPT YOUR WIFE,PERIOD.. If this person is a friend of yours, he wont be after you start the business. JMHO
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    mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,297 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My FIL told me if you ever want to get rich you have to work for yourself. NO ONE is going to pay you and make you rich.

    You will always have your retirement income and healthcare covered so why not go for it.

    Worst thing that can happen is you fail.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,389 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Oakie
    I have read a few responses. My only advice is, DO NOT GO INTO A PARTNERSHIP WITH ANYONE EXCEPT YOUR WIFE,PERIOD.. If this person is a friend of yours, he wont be after you start the business. JMHO
    Yep, BTDT.
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    asopasop Member Posts: 8,911 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The vast majority of "partnerships" fail. PERIOD You should have a "professional" go thru the buildings and give you an evaluation. This should in compass codes and ordinances for you're intended usage along with an evaluation of the physical condition of the structures. GO SLOW. And good luck.
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    WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,839 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pull the trigger!

    Keep us posted.
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    Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the sound advice fella's. I truly appreciate your help.

    I think I'm gonna go for it.

    NS
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    minitruck83minitruck83 Member Posts: 5,369
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by Oakie
    I have read a few responses. My only advice is, DO NOT GO INTO A PARTNERSHIP WITH ANYONE EXCEPT YOUR WIFE,PERIOD.. If this person is a friend of yours, he wont be after you start the business. JMHO
    Yep, BTDT.


    Add another idiot to that total. [V]
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