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Quick question
ElMuertoMonkey
Member Posts: 12,898
Q.When a couple have a baby, who is responsible for its sex?
A. I'll lend him my car, the rest is up to him.
A. I'll lend him my car, the rest is up to him.
Comments
S.K.
Now before you get your collective panties in a bunch, let me just say that no, I'm not pro-illegal immigration nor am I anti-gun... I'm just trying to illustrate how stupid the logic is behind any sort of all-encompassing ban that fails to address the root cause of the so-called problem.
Bans and prohibitions only address the symptoms if they address anything at all.
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Guns are not illegal.
Illegal aliens are illegal.
So, the government has a duty to enforce the laws. Illegal aliens, when found, should be arrested and deported as a rule.
If it's okay to say we must ban all illegal aliens because some of them commit violent crimes (I'm talking about rape, murder, and armed robbery), then why is it not okay to say we should ban all guns since they are sometimes used in said rapes, murders, and robberies?
Now before you get your collective panties in a bunch, let me just say that no, I'm not pro-illegal immigration nor am I anti-gun... I'm just trying to illustrate how stupid the logic is behind any sort of all-encompassing ban that fails to address the root cause of the so-called problem.
Bans and prohibitions only address the symptoms if they address anything at all.
No EMM, you have missed the point. It's okay to say we must ban all illegal aliens because they are illegal aliens. Reference the word ILLEGAL.
FBI stats show that only 12 percent of Murders are committed with firearms and 39 percent are committed with the bare hands and feet. Now that would support the controlling of people not guns..The rest (49 percent) are committed by everything else you could think of to kill with. How do we control this?
What is the solution to the illegal immigration problem? There are some hard working upstanding people among the numbers of illegals along with the criminal element that you will find in any group.
If it's okay to say we must ban all illegal aliens because some of them commit violent crimes
You are putting a limitation on it "because" of this or that.
I do not put any limitations on it.
Ban them ALL because they are in this country ILLEGALLY.
Do we now choose which laws to enforce, and which NOT to enforce?
Some are good people, some are not.
Makes NO difference, there are LEGAL ways to enter this country.
These people choose to spit in the face of every person that chose the LEGAL route.
It doesn't really matter, it's TOO LATE anyway. [V]
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
If it's okay to say we must ban all illegal aliens because some of them commit violent crimes
You are putting a limitation on it "because" of this or that.
I do not put any limitations on it.
Ban them ALL because they are in this country ILLEGALLY.
Do we now choose which laws to enforce, and which NOT to enforce?
Some are good people, some are not.
Makes NO difference, there are LEGAL ways to enter this country.
These people choose to spit in the face of every person that chose the LEGAL route.
It doesn't really matter, it's TOO LATE anyway. [V]
So true.
My point is not that illegal aliens should be here or that guns should be banned... my point is that people on any side of any issue have a tendency to panic or get all huffy or what the hell ever and ASSume that a total and comprehensive ban will solve the problem when in fact it will likely only exascerbate it.
That's all.
And if you could see past the examples cited, you'd agree.
I dont know of anyone who is in favor of laws against illegal immigration that is not also in favor of physically addressing the problem, either with a fence or increased border patrol coverage.
Why did I know that people would miss the damned point?
My point is not that illegal aliens should be here or that guns should be banned... my point is that people on any side of any issue have a tendency to panic or get all huffy or what the hell ever and ASSume that a total and comprehensive ban will solve the problem when in fact it will likely only exascerbate it.
That's all.
And if you could see past the examples cited, you'd agree.
No EMM, you have missed the point. Your analogy is not valid. Most of us who don't like most of the gun laws because we know they are unconstitutional still obey the laws because they are the law of the land until they are overturned. You are the one calling for selective enforcement, not us.
We do not ban car because of speeding.
We do not ban knives bcause of knife murders.
We tried banning alcohol and it was a cluster... I promised I'd quit swearing, but you get the idea.
My point is that illegal aliens, drugs, cars, cigarettes, guns (and if that's not enough examples for you lot, then your retardation is your problem, not mine)... none of the problems associated with them was ever solved purely by a ban.
For example - illegal aliens, as all of you pointed out, are still illegal (yes, I do know what that means) yet here they come! California put up a fence... did that help?
Texas is going to put up a wall. Think that'll stop anything?
Pass all the prohibitions and laws you want, beg for more, scream for more, promise to do naughty things to your representatives if they'll write more, but the fact remains that without a comprehensive solution that addressed the root cause of the problem, no ban ever worked.
And I cannot wait for someone else to respond, "but... but guns! I like guns! You can't ban them!"
NOT MY POINT! NEITHER IS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
Merely pointing out the idiocy of those who propose a ban on ANYTHING without actually addressing the real problems concerning the issue.
At least Classic got the point and said people are the problemm which they are... because only people are stupid enough to believe that merely by making something illegal will it cease being a problem.
Ever heard of the Berlin Wall/ The iron Curtain? etc.? Those folks behind the wall were highly motivated to get across, but not that many of them got across once the barrier was manned and completed and they had a little time to work the bugs out of the system.
We use walls and fences in prisons, around things we want to protect, the border is no different.
I believe we could cut illegal broder crossing on our southern border by 99% with a proper barricade and a guard every couple hundred yards.
Welcome aboard.
And what you said is exactly the sort of thinking that is needed to solve our problems. It is not just enough to say "ship 'em home" because barring having that ship sink in transit, they'll just come back.
Your suggestion that we eliminate the welfare state is the sort of comprehensive thinking I was trying to get people to engage in because as opposed to walls or bans or whatever, it addresses a root cause of the problem.
1776,
Welcome aboard.
And what you said is exactly the sort of thinking that is needed to solve our problems. It is not just enough to say "ship 'em home" because barring having that ship sink in transit, they'll just come back.
Your suggestion that we eliminate the welfare state is the sort of comprehensive thinking I was trying to get people to engage in because as opposed to walls or bans or whatever, it addresses a root cause of the problem.
Monkeyman,
The root of almsot all the problems in the world are social and economic, does that make them our problems?
The root of the problem may be social and economic but it's not our society and not our economy. The problems are mexico's social and economic problems,not ours.
Our problem could be solved at the border with a barrier and through political compromises that would allow certain workers to pass the barrier for a limited amount of time.
I always thought it was because they were here illegals because they are here illegally?
Illegal aliens are living, thinking, decision making live animals. Kind of similar to intelligent monkeys.
In the 1950's Mexico was at least as poor as it is now. The United States was at least as rich in comparison as it is now. There were a few "wet backs" in the United States. They were in constant fear of the INS because they knew they were likely to be caught and deported at any time.
The difference between the 1950's and now is simply that in the 1950's the law was enforced. In the 1950's "grand theft auto" was not considered a "petty crime". It's a mindset.
If it's okay to say we must ban all illegal aliens because some of them commit violent crimes (I'm talking about rape, murder, and armed robbery), then why is it not okay to say we should ban all guns since they are sometimes used in said rapes, murders, and robberies?
Now before you get your collective panties in a bunch, let me just say that no, I'm not pro-illegal immigration nor am I anti-gun... I'm just trying to illustrate how stupid the logic is behind any sort of all-encompassing ban that fails to address the root cause of the so-called problem.
Bans and prohibitions only address the symptoms if they address anything at all.
The root cause is they come here for money, whether it's to work for it or to steal it. We can't do a lot about the stealing bit but we can take a stand against companies who employ illegals.
And to use your analagy. We have a serious drink driving problem here in New Mexico yet all new bars are constructed with a large parking lot. According to police a high percentage of auto accidents are caused by excessive speed, but anyone can go out and buy a 220MPH car that's legal to drive on public roads. Just two examples that defy logic.
Bans don't work.
History proves it.
Better?
Back to the illegal immigrant issue.
The ROOT of the problem.
Only one solution to the "Mexican" invasion that I can think of, that might actually help.
IMPROVE the conditions in MEXICO.
Get rid of the corrupt government and law enforcement.
Give them jobs, and pay them a livable wage.
Narrow the gap between the value of currencies between them and the US.
Is this at all possible? I doubt it.
As long as they see this country as the land of milk and honey, a peach ripe for the picking (pun intended) they will continue to flood across the borders. For good or evil. While improving their won lives, along with the ability to send money home to make their families lives better, where would you lay the blame? Isn't that why a LOT of people risked life and limb to get to this country a few centuries ago? The (promise?) of a better life?
Fences -- walls -- all irrelevant. How many miles of fence? How many of walls? How many miles of border? What a JOKE. Short of stationing an armed force "completely" across the "whole" border, along with a coastal presence, nothing is going to stop them from entering this country. If they had a "decent" life at home, they wouldn't WANT to travel hundreds/thousands of miles to an unknown future.
Have any other liberal questions to ask?