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38 special
gap1916
Member Posts: 4,977
We all supposedly know how ineffective 38spl 158 grain lead round nose is for self defense.....or do we?
Opinions?
Opinions?
Comments
I had a S&W MDL. 10 with the thin barell, which seemed pretty good.
Your opinion would be appreciated and taken under consideration. I need one for my son's Christmas present and he's pretty sharp, so I don't want to get something he'll look at and say this thing is no good!
Thanks
Dave
Just about the most accurate gun I own is a Colt Officers Model Target. The gun shoots .38 special wadcutters into an inch at 25 yards.
The .38 Special can be handloaded to .357-like ballistics in modern handguns. As a medium power round, the basic .38 special is ideal for small revolvers like the S&W chiefs special or colt Detective.
With new smaller revolvers available in .357 also, there is not as much need for guns chambered for .38 special only. I would personally take a revolver with six .38 special cartridges over an auto with fifteen 9mm rounds.
The .38 special revolver is more reliable and i think the defensive loads available for .38 special are better than those available for autos. Revolvers can use any bullett design reliably. The most reliable rounds in autos are often not optimized for stopping power.
The .38 Special can be used in target autos like those made by Smith, but it's really a revolver cartridge.
Also have the Model 38 bodyguard lightweight with a crimson trace laser grip for defense. Model 36 Ladysmith stainless. Great gun for the wife.
The 38 spc will give a Cougar a nasty headach if you have a problem in the woods. See a bear, throw the gun at him and RUN!
I recommend m-36.
Yea!
Got one stuffed with Glasers and itll hide under a tee shirt. Not much good over 10-15 ft with the 2" bbl But thats what its for!
Had a 6" bbl S&W that was the most accurate wheelgun I ever owned. But my ex's father appropraited it[:(] (Thus proving that the apple dosent fall very far from the tree)
Allen
9mm 124 grain .354 caliber bullet @ 1100 fps = 325 foot pounds energy (5" barrel).
.38+P 125 grain .357 caliber bullet @ 850 fps = 280 foot pounds energy (6" barrel).
If you go to the hottest commercially available .38+P loads you can get a .125 grain bullet up to about 1100fps, meaning that the very most powerful factory .38 specials are still barely as powerful as a standard 9mm.
But at a distance of 20 feet or less, I think the total reliability of a .38 wheelgun is more important than muzzle energy. 200 foot pounds (which is all you get out of a short barrelled snubnose) is still plenty if you stick it in the right place.
I like and trust this one:
Most accurate dead on tack driver with reload wad cutters.
pros... great fun
cons... older don't like to over shoot it.
Taurus M85UL
Personal carry. Winchester 125 jhp+p ...frickin awsome.
pros.. very small conceal anywhere.
cons.. only 5 rounds.
A 10-7 2" BBL has been waiting for me for a while. I only know it looks 95+% or so.
The Ruger Police Service Six, 4" BBL, was bought to compare to the 10-5.
Comparison over, it is being sold for $200. [Wanna buy?]
A little different in the paw, but perfect otherwise. 85% - 90% looking.
If I'm gonna shoot .357 Magnum, it seems nicer with a full-size grip, and a longer barrel.
An SP1-101 [great gun] with a 2" BBL was trouble while a S&W Model 19 [?] with the 6" BBL was pure pleasure.
Beantown, I knew I couldnt slip any of that mythology past you. "Most powerful" is actually a subjective term. Most effective is better. More velocity x bullet weight does not necessarily equal more effective. I think the heaver bullets in the .38 special loading liike 148gr and 158gr. are just as effective as the plus .38 plus ps at close range. My favorite 9mm defensive load for in-home use is the 147gr. gr. subsonic HP. At very close range the ehavier bullet transfers all the energy into the target without overpenetrating.
Respectfully, "most powerful" is one of the few OBJECTIVE things with respect to gun effects; power can be measured directly with a chronograph and scale. The IPSC people do it every day. "Effectiveness" is almost purely anecdotal (ie unreliable).
But who said anything about "most powerful" anyway? If you want the most powerful handgun round in this class, its probably the 357 Maximum. Most powerful common round and realistic defense round in this class is the 357 magnum, with 9x23 probably being the best auto equivalent (357 Sig is maybe a close second to that).
I won't argue that the heavier .38 rounds aren't better. They probably are better. But a 158 grain .38+P is still better than a stock 158 grain regular .38. All else being equal, the same bullet moving at a faster speed is almost ALWAYS better.
In terms of most "effective", you have to compare apples to apples. .38s are partly "better" because novice shooters shoot wheelguns better than autos. They are easier to shoot under stress (bigger sights, no safety). When you know you only have 6 rounds (then you die), you try to connect with them. When you have 16 rounds you throw them away. This is a function of the gun, not the round. Conversely, in a military setting 9mms are loaded with crappy FMJ rounds, where as .38s are now virtually exclusively civilian use, and almost always hollowpoint or exposed lead.
If you do a direct comparison, say using wheelguns only (some of which can shoot 9mms AND .38s from the same gun), the 9mm is the hands down winner vs. 38. Its simple. . .from the exact same gun, it will shoot the same bullet weight/class faster. 9mm is just designed as a higher pressure round, and gives better performance. Put modern hollowpoint 9mm+Ps against modern .38+Ps and its no contest, the .38s come up short in EVERY way. . less velocity, less energy, less penetration, and by a pretty significant margin.
By the way, I'm not saying 9mm is a great round (we both know there's a lot better). . .I'm saying .38 special (even +P) is by any stretch a pretty PUNY load. That's the reality. And despite that, I still like my .38 because I know that shot placement and reliability are FAR more important than caliber. I'll take the wimp round knowing I can put them exactly where I want to, and that the package (light compact 100% reliable gun) is convenient.
I'm very partial to Mrs.Blue's Colt Magnum carry (right) but also like the light weight Smith model 60-9. Both .357mags but shoot .38 sp. Why you ask - cause it will get the job done. I know it ain't no .45, but it will put a hurt on your $#!$%@!!!!!!!
I carry a S&W Model 60-10 3 inch .357 loaded with Speer Dots, but I practice with it using 38 spls.
A good 38 spl defense load is the 148 grain HBWC (Hollow Based Wad Cutter) loaded backwards. It then becomes a Hollow point - guaranted to not over penatrate but to transfer ALL of it's energy (People have been using them that way since the 50's).
Yeah, I have one too. At 30 feet, if I aim at your left elbow, I will hit you center mass every time. That is accuracy all right.
At 50 feet I can (and have) put 5 shots out of my Smith 637 into a four inch group gallery style (ie one-handed, no rest) with factory ammo.
That's from a fixed-sight 1.75 inch barrel snubnose firing single-action; they end up grouping a few inches high and to the right of my aiming point.
Certainly nothing to brag about, but you figure at 20 feet or less, you're not going to miss anything important!
quote:the .38 Special is an extremely accurate cartridge, widely available in target and self defense loads. I have several Smith and Wesson revolvers in .38 Special.
Yeah, I have one too. At 30 feet, if I aim at your left elbow, I will hit you center mass every time. That is accuracy all right.
He Dog, I wouldn't call it accuracy, but i would call it consistency. Move the sights to the left or file out the notch on the fixed sights and the bullets will hit where you are aiming at.
Oh yeah,almost forgot to remind Beantown that you cant get those shotshell cartridges gap16 mentioned to work in a 9mm auto.
I carry it loaded w/Glaser Blues.
It's usually my BUG, but sometimes goes solo when it's hot outside.
The S&W 4506 w/Winchester Silvertips is my primary.
I wouldn't go with anything stronger in such a small package because of follow-up shots being important.
.38's ROCK, AB.
[:D]
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
the gun is not inaccurate at all, the short site radius is difficult to use
I've tried +P's in it, but they're a bit much for a little gal like me for range use. Mine is ported, which may have something to do with it......DUH!![:D]
Hope this helps!
Edge
I have a Taurus Model 85BULGRC Ultralite which I LOVE. Not only is it one of the prettiest guns I've ever seen (It's blued with a gold trigger and hammer and a rosewood grip) but it shoots like a dream!! It's my weapon of choice for concealed carry. If I had one complaint, it would be that I tend to get a blister on my thumb after putting about 100 rounds or so through it at the range because of the light weight (17 oz), but I bought a pair of shooting gloves to solve that problem.
I've tried +P's in it, but they're a bit much for a little gal like me for range use. Mine is ported, which may have something to do with it......DUH!![:D]
Hope this helps!
Edge
Porting of the barrel should make it easier to stay on target with more powerful loads like plus Ps.
I'm interested in how you carry concealed. Do you get blisters from the gun rubbing up against your... you know? does it hurt so good?
quote:Originally posted by Edge
I have a Taurus Model 85BULGRC Ultralite which I LOVE. Not only is it one of the prettiest guns I've ever seen (It's blued with a gold trigger and hammer and a rosewood grip) but it shoots like a dream!! It's my weapon of choice for concealed carry. If I had one complaint, it would be that I tend to get a blister on my thumb after putting about 100 rounds or so through it at the range because of the light weight (17 oz), but I bought a pair of shooting gloves to solve that problem.
I've tried +P's in it, but they're a bit much for a little gal like me for range use. Mine is ported, which may have something to do with it......DUH!![:D]
Hope this helps!
Edge
Porting of the barrel should make it easier to stay on target with more powerful loads like plus Ps.
I'm interested in how you carry concealed. Do you get blisters from the gun rubbing up against your... you know? does it hurt so good?
Porting of the barrel is def easier to stay on target, but it causes blisters on my left thumb as I've said before, so I don't practice with them every time I go to the range. The Range Officers laugh their butts off at me because of the blisters! LOL! They say I am the first they have ever seen with that problem. Of course, I get back at them evey chance I can...![:D][}:)]
I carry my gun in a specially made purse I bought at a gun show which has a holster built into the middle of the bag and I love it because I don't have to take it out to use it! Also, I have an ankle holster for my left ankle since I am a lefty. Lastly, I have a waist holster for my S&W .357......now, what was it you wanted to know? Something about me getting blisters on a certain part of my anatomy that hurts so good?[:p]
Naughty boy!! LOLOL!!
Women are far more likely to be the victim of violent crime than men are and it does my heart good to see you packin' to protect yourself.
Keep up the good fight, you ROCK, AB.
[:D]
quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
quote:Originally posted by Edge
I have a Taurus Model 85BULGRC Ultralite which I LOVE. Not only is it one of the prettiest guns I've ever seen (It's blued with a gold trigger and hammer and a rosewood grip) but it shoots like a dream!! It's my weapon of choice for concealed carry. If I had one complaint, it would be that I tend to get a blister on my thumb after putting about 100 rounds or so through it at the range because of the light weight (17 oz), but I bought a pair of shooting gloves to solve that problem.
I've tried +P's in it, but they're a bit much for a little gal like me for range use. Mine is ported, which may have something to do with it......DUH!![:D]
Hope this helps!
Edge
Porting of the barrel should make it easier to stay on target with more powerful loads like plus Ps.
I'm interested in how you carry concealed. Do you get blisters from the gun rubbing up against your... you know? does it hurt so good?
Porting of the barrel is def easier to stay on target, but it causes blisters on my left thumb as I've said before, so I don't practice with them every time I go to the range. The Range Officers laugh their butts off at me because of the blisters! LOL! They say I am the first they have ever seen with that problem. Of course, I get back at them evey chance I can...![:D][}:)]
I carry my gun in a specially made purse I bought at a gun show which has a holster built into the middle of the bag and I love it because I don't have to take it out to use it! Also, I have an ankle holster for my left ankle since I am a lefty. Lastly, I have a waist holster for my S&W .357......now, what was it you wanted to know? Something about me getting blisters on a certain part of my anatomy that hurts so good?[:p]
Naughty boy!! LOLOL!!
yes, i am a naughty boy, but unlike some of those other miscreants on this forum(you know who I mean) I know how to treat a lady... Now about those blisters... I can see you in my mind's eye, standing there at the range wearing nothing but a pair of thin, white, cotton, almost transluscent, shooting gloves. Find them at a Golf ProShop.
Seriously, I was raised around guns and have always been comfortable with them. Plus, I find shooting to be very therapeutic for reasons I won't say here because I don't want to start 'it' again. Let's just say my first post on this site was rather inappropriate. It's since been deleted which I think is in the best interest of the site. I was a bit too impulsive and very naive. Live and learn.
My husband bought me the Taurus for my birthday a couple of years ago, and the .357 last year for Valentine's Day. Ain't he sweeeeet?
It all boils down to me being a survivor, that's all. And I agree, too many women need to learn to protect themselves. There's a misconception amongst most women that if you own a gun, at some point, you will HAVE to use it. I think having one gives me the confidence that I will never have to. However, I certainly would not hesitate for a moment if I found myself in a situation where using it woulb be necessary!! I'm not squeamish about it at all.
Actually, all I have to do in those kind of situations is pretend the perp is my stepfather.....[}:)]
Peace
Edge