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quote:Originally posted by zipperzap
LOL ... naive people on a very naive internet/interest forum.
Classics, all. Thanks for the good chuckle.
Scott,.....what is "classic", or "naive" about ALL posts made on the thread?
With your infinite wisdom, could you possibly enlighten some of the folks here,......you know,....in between "chuckles."
Beyond the "it's only the internet" mantra if possible.
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:
Do you know why rents are so out of wack with buying in many areas? Because you cannot take a loan to pay your rent. Therefore, rents MUST keep in line with what people can actually afford to pay. Look at the rental rates in any given area, figure out what that translates to in a mortgage loan, and that is about what houses should cost.
In what areas are rents "out of whack" with house prices?
Wow I sure wish I lived in lala land like you! Off the top of my head I'd say uhhhhh...... how about ANY major metropolitan area? The DC Metro area averages about $400-600k for a house (not a great one). A similar house would be $1500 - $2000 to rent. Last I checked, that was about $3800/month in mortgage payments. Using the 3x salary multiplier for home finance amount, that is about $166k/year in income. Personally I do not know anyone that makes that amount.
quote:Originally posted by kristov
If the lender did not like his offer they could have just let him walk away. This is just a business transaction and not a window into the man's morals. For 99% of Americans buying their home(s) will be the biggest financial transaction of their life and it has some sort of nearly holy status but it is simply a matter of the exchanging of your money for someone elses property. When you own your own business and you sit down to make deals for large dollar amounts on a regular basis you know that had better bring your A-game with you because the guy (or gal) on the otherside of the table has his best interest at heart and not yours.BINGO!!!!
It is a suprise to me that so many of you are suprised to find people who are willing to go back on their word. How many of you are divorced, did you vow, til death due us part.
I would not take a promise from anyone today. If I had colateral for a loan I made an it became worthless I would expect the borrower to stop paying me. You just have to know that very few people will hold up their end of a bargin after it is not longer in their favor.
Chaos only got what the govenment was encourageing lenders to give, a reduction in principal and a reasonable interest rate.
I think the whole thing stinks, greedy borrowers, greedy lenders, nanny government, greedy venture capitalists.
Chaos probably still owes more than the house would sell for right now or the bank would not have gone for the deal. They are each trying cut their losses. They are also jerks for getting the county into this mess. If most people would try to live within their means and not chase things they have not earned their would not have been a bubble and an reasonable house would actually have been affordable.
I would expect nothing less from a man who wears a skort.[;)] The problem with the deal is, it is rewarding bad judgement, by all parties involved. Lots of people took the sub prime loans, in order to get in on the real estate boom, many with plans on flipping the house before the arm adjusted. Opps, market goes way south, house worth less than mortgage, can't sell house to pay what is owed on mortgage, arm adjusts up and there you go.
How about this? Suppose he had a variable rate mortgage that he got because he had a blemish or two on his almighty credit report. Now, the interest rate is about to shoot upward, BUT, because a few years have passed, his credit score is better.
So, he approaches the banker for a refinance to a fixed rate, but does not threaten to let the house go into foreclosure. He just goes in and makes a new deal, and the banker goes for it.
Maybe in the back of the banker's mind is the thought that the borrower could default on the current mortgage, and that the house is not currently worth the loan balance, but it is not mentioned. Maybe the banker also considers that the borrower, with his improved score, could go to the bank down the street for a refinance.
In both instances, the borrower manages to get out of a deal he made, and he makes a new deal. Did he renege? Is this wrong?
Or is the only wrong here that he mentioned that he had considered letting the house go back?
IMNSHO, if he had asked for a refinance, the possibility of foreclosure would have had to cross the banker's mind, given the imminent jump in interest rate and payment, and the home's value VS the amount of the balance.
Maybe he just pointed out what COULD happen, and let the banker decide what to do next.
The biggest lesson to learn here is, never, never, never sign an ARM (adjustable rate mortage) or IO (intrest only) contract. It's like going to a casino. They are going to get the best of you in the end, even if you are out front for a short time.[;)]
any time you can cut interest paid is a good thing for you...just money threw away.....in fact i am going to my bank to refi some notes on things that i am paying to much int on told him if he can't get competive with the going rates i will go elsewhere...i'll take it elsewhere....it on quite a large sum of money...a percent or two cheaper adds up to a lot of money......just business .....i'd lot rather save myself money than make them more .....another thing their money is costing them a lot less than it did couple years ago...all the ones talking econ 101 that i have read over the years here....i am sure really have no clue[:D]
quote:Originally posted by dtknowles
It is a suprise to me that so many of you are suprised to find people who are willing to go back on their word.
Actually it surprises me that anyone thinks I have "gone back on my word" at all. If you read the contract for a mortgage it is very specific in spelling out what the agreement is according to a variety of actions by both parties including non payment. I actually went above and beyond my contractual obligations by negotiating a new deal. I accepted the consequences of non payment and Countrywide accepted that I might not pay when we made the agreement. That is standard in any agreement in a real world business transaction.
So where is it that anyone went back on their word?
quote:Originally posted by chaoslodge
I win. The rest be buggered.
buggered? that's a queer thing right?
having a few friends in the Pre-Legal collections racket, I have to respect your position Choaslodge. I'm just saying be careful, cause you can end up in jail or worse from not paying your bills.
quote:Originally posted by mrseatle
quote:Originally posted by chaoslodge
I win. The rest be buggered.
buggered? that's a queer thing right?
having a few friends in the Pre-Legal collections racket, I have to respect your position Choaslodge. I'm just saying be careful, cause you can end up in jail or worse from not paying your bills.
There is no debtors prison or indentured service anymore. I know this game well. Thanks for your note of caution. I pay my taxes. I am a live at home kind of dad so that is not an issue either.
"I informed the loan officer that I was probably going to walk out of the house unless they could come up with an acceptable offer."
I can't believe that this must be pointed out,.......the above is what caused the majority of "negative" responses.
Negotiations, and refinancing are TOTALLY acceptable practices, and options.
Obviously he could not re-fi with a different lender,....once again I say bad credit.
He is back into another 5/1 ARM which folks are "bitching" should be illegal, to protect morons from themselves.
All that I tried to say was the "ultimate" party for blame, is the human that placed their signature on the dotted line,......short of outright fraud.
There was no fraud here, simply the only loan he could get at the time, and had the preconceived plan to default if the payments could not be handled.
Either that, or he played a "bluff",.....which is the same as lying, if he WAS capable of not defaulting on the loan.
I know MANY folks that switched ARMS to fixed rate with no issues, so I stand by the lousy credit comment. One gets a lousy credit rating for a reason!
That is my take at least, and I will not bother with this further.
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
chaos had the right to walk if he chose too. He knew that there might be consequences if he did, and the lender knew there were consequences too, in that the lender would become the owner of a house.
The lender was free to call chaos' hand. It was the lenders' choice to renegotiate.
Par for the course, much ado about nothing around here.
One point nobody has mentioned is this window of opportunity for chaos to make and win this negotiation happened to be right.
Five years ago, and perhaps five months from now, the bank could have told him to go ahead and walk out the door.
I doubt I would have approached it the same way he did, it probably could have been done differently and yielded the same result, but as nunn pointed out, the details to get that result are not the critical part here, and I am not aware of any mortgage company that is a moral authority first, and a business second.
quote:Originally posted by MT357
quote:Countrywide is a case study in idiots.
So are the people who borrowed from them.
Not all the people. I have a loan with Countrywide from three years ago. I've had no issues with my loan due to myself making sure the loan was correct and fixed at the begining before I signed. I bought within my means and made damn sure to get a good fixed loan rate. Is that patting myself on the back? Hell no, it's having a slight clue on how to not screw myself and my family.
Personally I'm amazed by some of the comments. They make it sound like the loan companies found these idiots and made them sign bad loans. I have to laugh my * off when I hear the words "Predatory lenders". Honestly what in the hell is that. All lenders of any kind should be looked at as predators from the start. You need to iron our what your rates and loan payment is before you sign anything. Then you also need to have just HALF a brain to see if you can afford it.
The goverment should stay the hell out of it and let those who did stupid things go belly up whether it be the lender or the person that took the loan. No help let them grow up and live in the real world and get what they asked for. Some lessons of the best lessons hurt really bad.
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
quote:Originally posted by MT357
quote:Countrywide is a case study in idiots.
So are the people who borrowed from them.
Not all the people. I have a loan with Countrywide from three years ago. I've had no issues with my loan due to myself making sure the loan was correct and fixed at the begining before I signed. I bought within my means and made damn sure to get a good fixed loan rate. Is that patting myself on the back? Hell no, it's having a slight clue on how to not screw myself and my family.
Personally I'm amazed by some of the comments. They make it sound like the loan companies found these idiots and made them sign bad loans. I have to laugh my * off when I hear the words "Predatory lenders". Honestly what in the hell is that. All lenders of any kind should be looked at as predators from the start. You need to iron our what your rates and loan payment is before you sign anything. Then you also need to have just HALF a brain to see if you can afford it.
The goverment should stay the hell out of it and let those who did stupid things go belly up whether it be the lender or the person that took the loan. No help let them grow up and live in the real world and get what they asked for. Some lessons of the best lessons hurt really bad.
I stand corrected in your instance. I didn't realize those outfits made normal loans to good borrowers.
Now is the perfect time to play hardball with your lender. While I have no intention of walking away, the lender doesn't know that and can't afford to call my bluff. So far I renegotiated a new mortgage, and got lower rates and all my credit cards even though I pay off all balances.
Beating up on car dealerships is the best. They can't let anyone walk out of a showroom without a sale
Comments
Classics, all. Thanks for the good chuckle.
LOL ... naive people on a very naive internet/interest forum.
Classics, all. Thanks for the good chuckle.
Scott,.....what is "classic", or "naive" about ALL posts made on the thread?
With your infinite wisdom, could you possibly enlighten some of the folks here,......you know,....in between "chuckles."
Beyond the "it's only the internet" mantra if possible.
Do you know why rents are so out of wack with buying in many areas? Because you cannot take a loan to pay your rent. Therefore, rents MUST keep in line with what people can actually afford to pay. Look at the rental rates in any given area, figure out what that translates to in a mortgage loan, and that is about what houses should cost.
In what areas are rents "out of whack" with house prices?
Wow I sure wish I lived in lala land like you! Off the top of my head I'd say uhhhhh...... how about ANY major metropolitan area? The DC Metro area averages about $400-600k for a house (not a great one). A similar house would be $1500 - $2000 to rent. Last I checked, that was about $3800/month in mortgage payments. Using the 3x salary multiplier for home finance amount, that is about $166k/year in income. Personally I do not know anyone that makes that amount.
He only posts to keep his count up.
He can't take a chance that 'Hairy' might catch him.
Thanks---Peabo
If the lender did not like his offer they could have just let him walk away. This is just a business transaction and not a window into the man's morals. For 99% of Americans buying their home(s) will be the biggest financial transaction of their life and it has some sort of nearly holy status but it is simply a matter of the exchanging of your money for someone elses property. When you own your own business and you sit down to make deals for large dollar amounts on a regular basis you know that had better bring your A-game with you because the guy (or gal) on the otherside of the table has his best interest at heart and not yours.BINGO!!!!
Finally caught up on this one.
Thanks for the entertaining thread.
I guess that people are just people. Go figure!
I would not take a promise from anyone today. If I had colateral for a loan I made an it became worthless I would expect the borrower to stop paying me. You just have to know that very few people will hold up their end of a bargin after it is not longer in their favor.
Chaos only got what the govenment was encourageing lenders to give, a reduction in principal and a reasonable interest rate.
I think the whole thing stinks, greedy borrowers, greedy lenders, nanny government, greedy venture capitalists.
Chaos probably still owes more than the house would sell for right now or the bank would not have gone for the deal. They are each trying cut their losses. They are also jerks for getting the county into this mess. If most people would try to live within their means and not chase things they have not earned their would not have been a bubble and an reasonable house would actually have been affordable.
How about this? Suppose he had a variable rate mortgage that he got because he had a blemish or two on his almighty credit report. Now, the interest rate is about to shoot upward, BUT, because a few years have passed, his credit score is better.
So, he approaches the banker for a refinance to a fixed rate, but does not threaten to let the house go into foreclosure. He just goes in and makes a new deal, and the banker goes for it.
Maybe in the back of the banker's mind is the thought that the borrower could default on the current mortgage, and that the house is not currently worth the loan balance, but it is not mentioned. Maybe the banker also considers that the borrower, with his improved score, could go to the bank down the street for a refinance.
In both instances, the borrower manages to get out of a deal he made, and he makes a new deal. Did he renege? Is this wrong?
Or is the only wrong here that he mentioned that he had considered letting the house go back?
IMNSHO, if he had asked for a refinance, the possibility of foreclosure would have had to cross the banker's mind, given the imminent jump in interest rate and payment, and the home's value VS the amount of the balance.
Maybe he just pointed out what COULD happen, and let the banker decide what to do next.
It is a suprise to me that so many of you are suprised to find people who are willing to go back on their word.
Actually it surprises me that anyone thinks I have "gone back on my word" at all. If you read the contract for a mortgage it is very specific in spelling out what the agreement is according to a variety of actions by both parties including non payment. I actually went above and beyond my contractual obligations by negotiating a new deal. I accepted the consequences of non payment and Countrywide accepted that I might not pay when we made the agreement. That is standard in any agreement in a real world business transaction.
So where is it that anyone went back on their word?
I win. The rest be buggered.
buggered? that's a queer thing right?
having a few friends in the Pre-Legal collections racket, I have to respect your position Choaslodge. I'm just saying be careful, cause you can end up in jail or worse from not paying your bills.
Except child support. I forgot child support. You can go to jail for not paying that one.
And income taxes.
But definitely not for ordinary debts. You can get your stuff taken away, but you can't go to jail.
I know. I didn't pay $48,000 of my bills in 2004.
mr. seatle, you worry too much about homosexuals and their behaviors. If they ain't doing it to you, why worry about it?
quote:Originally posted by chaoslodge
I win. The rest be buggered.
buggered? that's a queer thing right?
having a few friends in the Pre-Legal collections racket, I have to respect your position Choaslodge. I'm just saying be careful, cause you can end up in jail or worse from not paying your bills.
There is no debtors prison or indentured service anymore. I know this game well. Thanks for your note of caution. I pay my taxes. I am a live at home kind of dad so that is not an issue either.
And chaoslodge recently drove a hard bargain with one of them. Double good for him.
I can't believe that this must be pointed out,.......the above is what caused the majority of "negative" responses.
Negotiations, and refinancing are TOTALLY acceptable practices, and options.
Obviously he could not re-fi with a different lender,....once again I say bad credit.
He is back into another 5/1 ARM which folks are "bitching" should be illegal, to protect morons from themselves.
All that I tried to say was the "ultimate" party for blame, is the human that placed their signature on the dotted line,......short of outright fraud.
There was no fraud here, simply the only loan he could get at the time, and had the preconceived plan to default if the payments could not be handled.
Either that, or he played a "bluff",.....which is the same as lying, if he WAS capable of not defaulting on the loan.
I know MANY folks that switched ARMS to fixed rate with no issues, so I stand by the lousy credit comment. One gets a lousy credit rating for a reason!
That is my take at least, and I will not bother with this further.
The lender was free to call chaos' hand. It was the lenders' choice to renegotiate.
chaos took on "the system". Good for him.
One point nobody has mentioned is this window of opportunity for chaos to make and win this negotiation happened to be right.
Five years ago, and perhaps five months from now, the bank could have told him to go ahead and walk out the door.
I doubt I would have approached it the same way he did, it probably could have been done differently and yielded the same result, but as nunn pointed out, the details to get that result are not the critical part here, and I am not aware of any mortgage company that is a moral authority first, and a business second.
quote:Countrywide is a case study in idiots.
So are the people who borrowed from them.
Not all the people. I have a loan with Countrywide from three years ago. I've had no issues with my loan due to myself making sure the loan was correct and fixed at the begining before I signed. I bought within my means and made damn sure to get a good fixed loan rate. Is that patting myself on the back? Hell no, it's having a slight clue on how to not screw myself and my family.
Personally I'm amazed by some of the comments. They make it sound like the loan companies found these idiots and made them sign bad loans. I have to laugh my * off when I hear the words "Predatory lenders". Honestly what in the hell is that. All lenders of any kind should be looked at as predators from the start. You need to iron our what your rates and loan payment is before you sign anything. Then you also need to have just HALF a brain to see if you can afford it.
The goverment should stay the hell out of it and let those who did stupid things go belly up whether it be the lender or the person that took the loan. No help let them grow up and live in the real world and get what they asked for. Some lessons of the best lessons hurt really bad.
quote:Originally posted by MT357
quote:Countrywide is a case study in idiots.
So are the people who borrowed from them.
Not all the people. I have a loan with Countrywide from three years ago. I've had no issues with my loan due to myself making sure the loan was correct and fixed at the begining before I signed. I bought within my means and made damn sure to get a good fixed loan rate. Is that patting myself on the back? Hell no, it's having a slight clue on how to not screw myself and my family.
Personally I'm amazed by some of the comments. They make it sound like the loan companies found these idiots and made them sign bad loans. I have to laugh my * off when I hear the words "Predatory lenders". Honestly what in the hell is that. All lenders of any kind should be looked at as predators from the start. You need to iron our what your rates and loan payment is before you sign anything. Then you also need to have just HALF a brain to see if you can afford it.
The goverment should stay the hell out of it and let those who did stupid things go belly up whether it be the lender or the person that took the loan. No help let them grow up and live in the real world and get what they asked for. Some lessons of the best lessons hurt really bad.
I stand corrected in your instance. I didn't realize those outfits made normal loans to good borrowers.
Beating up on car dealerships is the best. They can't let anyone walk out of a showroom without a sale