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Chief shoots self, after giving safety lesson
Anonymouse
Member Posts: 4,050
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A local sheriff died in a car wreck around here last night. They say he wasn't wearing his seat belt!
That doesn't surprise me. I see cops around here all the time without their seat belts on. I commented to one of them about it once, she said it was so they could get out of their cruiser quickly if needed and not get caught up in the seatbelt. I then asked her, "Then how can you all have seat belt check stops and write everyone else for not wearing theirs?" She did not like that
This is why the police shouldn't be armed.
This just shows the whole nation should be disarmed, police are trained to handle firearms, and they still shoot themselves. If a police firearms trainer can accidently shoot himself, then you certainly can't trust the average person with a gun. Forget the 2nd ammendment, guns are bad, people shouldn't have them.
100% of all self inflicted gunshot wounds to police officers, are caused by cops with guns.
Oh, is that so?
[B)][:)]
What's up with that?
(was told that you have to pull the trigger before racking the slide back during disassembly)
Common firearm knowledge tells you to unload a gun before cleaning.
Is it possible that this quirk creates a mental blind spot for those who have years of familarity with other handguns?
What's needed? Better training? Constant reminders? Yearly retraining? Issueing Glocks only to those without prior firearm knowledge? (?)
(got nothing to say about the direction he had it pointed) [V]
Allen
100% of all self inflicted gunshot wounds to police officers, are caused by cops with guns.
And 100% of all self inflicted gunshot wounds to right handed male truck drivers are caused by right handed male truck drivers.
Thats pretty obvious.
Not bashing Glocks. But has anyone noticed that most AD's with a Glock involves a failure to clear the chamber while cleaning?
What's up with that?
(was told that you have to pull the trigger before racking the slide back during disassembly)
Common firearm knowledge tells you to unload a gun before cleaning.
Is it possible that this quirk creates a mental blind spot for those who have years of familarity with other handguns?
What's needed? Better training? Constant reminders? Yearly retraining? Issueing Glocks only to those without prior firearm knowledge? (?)
(got nothing to say about the direction he had it pointed) [V]
Allen
Whats needed is to think about what your doing while your doing it. Yes, pulling the trigger is the "second" step in disassembly. "Every" gun should be cleared "first"(remove the mag & rack the slide) prior to cleaning.
If you use the same method for Glocks you use with other guns, there would be no problem.
Not bashing Glocks. But has anyone noticed that most AD's with a Glock involves a failure to clear the chamber while cleaning?
What's up with that?
(was told that you have to pull the trigger before racking the slide back during disassembly)
Common firearm knowledge tells you to unload a gun before cleaning.
Is it possible that this quirk creates a mental blind spot for those who have years of familarity with other handguns?
What's needed? Better training? Constant reminders? Yearly retraining? Issueing Glocks only to those without prior firearm knowledge? (?)
(got nothing to say about the direction he had it pointed) [V]
Allen
Unloading a glock prior to cleaning is no different then unloading any other pistol. Anyone who has an AD with a glock would have had the same AD with any other pistol because they failed to clear the chamber before pulling the trigger.
Unloading a glock prior to cleaning is no different then unloading any other pistol.True, but it's the only design that absolutely requires this. No other design requires a trigger pull to be the first step of disassembly.
I'm not blaming this incident on the gun, but Glock pistols are unarguably the most unforgiving of mistakes.
quote:Originally posted by chappsyny
Unloading a glock prior to cleaning is no different then unloading any other pistol.True, but it's the only design that absolutely requires this. No other design requires a trigger pull to be the first step of disassembly.
I'm not blaming this incident on the gun, but Glock pistols are unarguably the most unforgiving of mistakes.
XDs also require the trigger pull. That is no longer required in the new XD-m series, which gives the XD-m one more advantage over the Glock. Having to pull the trigger to disassemble a gun is a very stupid design.
I've been noticing that 4 out of the 5 local 'reported' AD's (or should I say ND?)in the last 6 months have been while cleaning a Glock,and also some aspect of law enforcement. Possibly because they have to account for issued ammo. I know for a fact that the idiot down the street 'accidentally' fired off a unreported round from a 30-30 while setting in his kitchen last month! (no he's not a cop!) The one that wasn't 'while cleaning' was a foot chase of a fence jumpin,canal swimmin,suspect through the back yards of a gated community and into the swamp, (I can only guess the story behind that)
Coincidences fascinate me. [:)]
It's also kind of obvious why Glock can claim the numbers of Police sales that they publish... Pricing on bulk sales! (also heard that the 'out the door' manufacturing cost was under $100. Dunno if that's true either. But if it is,more power to em!)
There are more 'Glock' tales out there than you can shake a stick at. Choosing which to believe can be difficult.
Remember when it was 'gospel' that they would pass through a metal detector undetected?
So I ask dumb questions.
Allen
When I'm breaking down one of my Glocks the barrel is pointed away from me at all times.
Any gun is very unforgiving.True, but the Glock is more so than any other pistol. Failure to acknowledge this is a large part of the problem.
As an example, with any other design you can completely drop the ball and disassemble without clearing the chamber and it won't discharge, it's just seriously unsafe. Screw this up with the Glock and you're guaranteed to put a hole in something.
A large part of the problem with all these Glock AD's we hear about is that they're commonly pitched as the perfect gun for handgun or semiauto beginners due to simplicity of operation. It's a decent pistol, but has some unarguably unique characteristics that in my opinion put it firmly in the 'experienced shooters only' category.
This is very dangerous and has caused accidents in the USA and the German Army.
The Luger can be dismantled while loaded and the upper assembly fired by itself.Sorry, I failed to specify that I was referring to modern design/currently manufactured pistols, not those declared obsolete 70 years ago.
But since you brought it up - As you state the P08 can be discharged this way, but firing pin fall doesn't automatically occur as a normal part of disassembly. While very unsafe to disassemble with a round in the chamber, it's not guaranteed to fire as with the Glock design.
Jesus...how hard is it the dump the magazine and rack the slide???After this is done, how hard is it to cycle the slide to insure the action is cocked in order to achieve firing pin fall when the trigger is pulled?
1. Remove all ammunition from the gun.
Now is where disassembly actually begins:
2. Cycle the slide to insure the action is cocked.
3. Pull the trigger to release the firing pin.
4. Remove the slide from the frame.
5. Remove the barrel/recoil spring assembly from the slide.
Once the mechanical reason is explained, including this step as a routine part of disassembly procedure is a logical step which beginners readily accept as necessary. The added degree of safety it provides is an included benefit.
The hospital had no record of Schwarber being treated or admitted.
Uh-oh... Twilight Zone time!
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
This just shows the whole nation should be disarmed, police are trained to handle firearms, and they still shoot themselves. If a police firearms trainer can accidently shoot himself, then you certainly can't trust the average person with a gun. Forget the 2nd ammendment, guns are bad, people shouldn't have them.
You probably know this already, but that is exactly the argument that the Brady types bring up when this kinda thing happens. It does make sense, in a people-can't-be-trusted-on-their-own kinda way. I prefer to think of it as Darwinism, as in we would be a stronger nation without people who are stupid enough to shoot themselves.
One of my favorite Cooper quotes:
Guns are not fool-proof. Fools should keep their hands off machinery.
BTW, I personally know two officers that have shot themselves with carry guns, one with a primary and one with a BU, both on the same small dept. (under 200 sworn & non-sworn). Both of them privately said yep they deserved it for being so stupid, both of them accepted minor disciplinary action without protest, and neither tried to sue anybody.