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game wardens,private property and hunting season

GotteskriegerGotteskrieger Member Posts: 3,170 ✭✭
edited November 2007 in General Discussion
i have 33 acres that i hike. sometimes i carry a pistol sometimes i carry my ak. it's my property so i'll do what i want.i don't hunt so if a game warden came on my property what could he do if i was carrying my ak? could he claim i was hunting?

Comments

  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,668 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just can't see that a warden would have a case against you, unless you were wearing an orange vest, and you had a dead deer with some 7.62 mm holes in it.
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I doubt you will have a game warden on your property unless he is invited.
    He can claim anything he wants but it is a flimsy accusation at best unless there is a dead animal for proof you are hunting. That would be a different story.
  • jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 26,240 ******
    edited November -1
    I, too have 33 acres here at my house, mostly rolling pasture. Here in Va. landowners can hunt their own land without having to buy a license. However, the season must be in and you must follow all other laws such as bag limits and checking deer, turkey, and bear in. If I was just walking around with an AK or any other rifle, the Va. gamewarden wouldn't hassle me although it could technically be said that I was hunting. Best check your own state and local laws.
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    I checked, last year. I'm good, on my 80+, up in TN.[;)]
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't know about your state.
    West Virginia land owners do not need a hunting or fishing license when on your own property.

    The DNR does advise (it's not a law) that farmers or others to wear blaze orange when out doing chores or other activity on their property during rifle and black powder season.
  • 41 nut41 nut Member Posts: 3,016
    edited November -1
    In Maine it is prima facia evidence that you are hunting if you are carrying a gun in the woods or on a dirt road. So states in the law books. Wardens can (and some will) take you if you are driving out of camp on the dirt road and have a gun that is not in a case in the car or pickup.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,494 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SC land owners do need a hunting license. My hunting buddy was ticketed opening day of dove season for not having his license on his person..( on his own property )
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where are you located?

    As with any questions on legalities, it depends upon your state's laws.
  • GotteskriegerGotteskrieger Member Posts: 3,170 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Txs
    Where are you located?

    As with any questions on legalities, it depends upon your state's laws.


    WV
  • needmygunsneedmyguns Member Posts: 2,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    in the state of wisconsin the dnr think that even your private land is their land and yes will accuse you of hunting if they see you with any gun during any open season
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gotteskrieger
    From the West Virginia regulations book.


    Resident Landowners

    Resident Landowners or their resident children or their resident parents or resident tenants of such land, may hunt or trap on their own land without a license during open seasons.

    Resident landowner privileges apply to West Virginia residents who own land in West Virginia, their resident children and parents, or resident tenants. Resident tenants must permanently live on the land.

    ========================================
    Just in case you should decide to hunt.

    Resident Landowner Privileges

    West Virginia resident landowners may hunt on their own
    land without obtaining a license. See definition of resident
    landowner privileges on page 8.

    A resident landowner hunting on his/her own land without
    a license can take the same number of deer as a licensed
    hunter.

    A hunter (licensee or landowner) cannot take more
    than the number of deer allowed in the respective seasons.
    After killing a deer as a landowner, a person cannot take
    another deer by use of a license for which the privilege has
    already been used.

    Example - if a landowner has a Class X or
    A license and kills an antlered deer on his own land during
    buck season, the landowner cannot use the Class X or A
    license to kill another buck during the buck season.

    He/she can check the deer in as a landowner kill or on the Class X
    or A license. Either way, the Class X or A privilege to kill an
    antlered deer during the buck season has been used.

    =====================================
    As I stated before. He can't do anything even if you were hunting.
  • GUNFUNCOGUNFUNCO Member Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My advice is to just tell him that you were carrying for target shooting, or self protection, whichever the actual case may be.

    If you tell him you are hunting, there may be other requirements about hours and seasons that may apply to you if you are hunting (or say you are).
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tell em' you was huntin' Iwackies.
  • divebombdivebomb Member Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    around here you wont find one comming on your property unless invited. and if he does come uninvited its cause your up to something, he knows it and hes got back up.
  • HandgunHTR52HandgunHTR52 Member Posts: 2,735
    edited November -1
    Ok, I have to ask. WTH do you need to carry an AK around with you on your property unless you are hunting or target shooting? Don't get me wrong, it is your property and you have the right to carry whatever the heck you please. I am just curious.
  • kyplumberkyplumber Member Posts: 11,111
    edited November -1
    tell them to kiss your caboose, tell him he is trespassing and remind him you are way better armed than he is :)
  • iluvgunsiluvguns Member Posts: 5,351
    edited November -1
    quote:I doubt you will have a game warden on your property unless he is invited.

    Wish that were true in TN! I live in KY and own land in TN. Buy out of state hunting license because the law says I have to. No problem there. Last year, before deer season, I had several washed out spots that I had graded and seeded. Every time I went down, someone had driven through the middle of them, leaving huge ruts. Blamed my uncles, cousins, even my dad for tearing up the ground. All of them swore it wasn't them. Opening day of last year's youth season, I sat in the blind with my son and watched as the freaking game warden drove right through the middle of the new, barely up grass! Jumped out of the blind and ran him down. After questioning him, he admitted that he had been through there several times over the past couple of months just "looking around." Then he questioned my son about having his license. I told my son to keep quiet, and told the g.w. that he didn't require a license as he was 12 (12 and under requires no license in TN, even if they live out of state). Then he asked to see his hunter's safety card. When hunting on my property, I don't carry my wallet, so didn't have the card with me. Offered to take him to the house and show it to him (you could see the roof of the house from where we were hunting!) Gave me grief over that. I was steamed! But, after checking it out, there is nothing I can do. A game warden, at least in TN, can enter private property anytime they feel like it, and there isn't a dang thing you can do. I was squirrel hunting and deer scouting this past August. Was riding my 4-wheeler around. Out of an old logging road, way on the back of my property, comes the game warden. Again, just "looking around, checking for food plots." I think I caught him in a lie, as in the passenger seat of his truck was a pretty good looking blonde who was NOT wearing a TWRA uniform. He got really upset when I reached into the bag on the 4-wheeler and pulled out my camera and asked if I could take his and his friends picture, as I was sure his wife would like a copy. [}:)] Haven't seen him since, but I figure I will run into him before the season ends in January.
  • spryorspryor Member Posts: 9,155
    edited November -1
    Even if the "can go wherever they want", it seems they'd still be liable for any damages caused..
  • iluvgunsiluvguns Member Posts: 5,351
    edited November -1
    quote:Even if the "can go wherever they want", it seems they'd still be liable for any damages caused..

    I checked on having the TWRA fix the ruts or reimburse me for my time and new seed. Nope. Unless the damage was "done with malicious intent," they aren't liable for it. The head honcho in Nashville that I called said that this guy was "just doing his job." I told him it sounded like the Gestapo to me. He didn't take too kindly to that.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IF you have gates and your property marked as private,..the DNR can NOT even come onto your property without an invitation. They CAN wait for you at the road or gate,..but can't come onto private property without permission.
  • GUNFUNCOGUNFUNCO Member Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    JustC-

    That is not the case in Michigan. An officer only needs reasonable suspicion that a conservation law is being violated to make entry onto private property. The legal theory is called "open fields doctrine". Unless the area is within a curtilage of a dwelling, a search warrant would not be required.

    The land is the property of the landowner, but the public holds a vested interest in the free-ranging animals there. The wildlife belongs to the people as a whole.
  • minitruck83minitruck83 Member Posts: 5,369
    edited November -1
    LesWv. I sat and watched a landowner off Back Mountain Road in Randolph county tell two conservation officers that stepped over a chained drive with a no trespassing sign and walked boldly up to his camp that they were under arrest for trespassing. He also told a couple of other drunks to take them down to the creek and hang them. They became frightened and left quickly and later tried to file charges against him. Didn't work, either he had pals in Charleston or maybe the game warden can only check your freezer and outbuildings on posted property when evoking the law that gives them that privilege. (as far as I know only a fire marshal can inspect the entire building without a warrant) He was mad because these same two out of uniform officers had earlier that week talked a group of out of state hunters camped on his lower pasture to shoot at a turkey that flew into tree near their camp before announcing that they were conservation officers. (I tend to believe he had connections) I never returned to this farm because of getting a little concerned skeered of the drinking and impromptu shooting matches that I saw there.
    Might be worth looking into as how far a game warden can go while searching for illegal kills. Course you can hide the extra squirrel in a mighty small place. lol

    Allen
  • GotteskriegerGotteskrieger Member Posts: 3,170 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by HandgunHTR52
    Ok, I have to ask. WTH do you need to carry an AK around with you on your property unless you are hunting or target shooting? Don't get me wrong, it is your property and you have the right to carry whatever the heck you please. I am just curious.


    its my property and i have a right to carry what ever the heck i please.

    4 wheelers And hunters have gone into places i didn't want them to. they drive under my rock cliffs and dump trash. They cut down trees to get their 4 wheelers where they want to hunt from them. they build tree stands in my trees. they spin circles in my flat spots. hunters dump corn to chum the deer.one person ,i was unarmed at the time, held his 30-30 at low port at my feet telling me it was his uncles land and i shouldn't be there.3 people were shot to death not more than a mile from there on and on and on. all this has happened over a period of years but i am fed up. i am gone for weeks at a time so no telling what i will find.

    i will continue to carry my AK on my land.
  • GotteskriegerGotteskrieger Member Posts: 3,170 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    iluvguns, can't you file a complaint with the head man at the TWRA?
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    game warden here is my neighbor & friend...about the only line of defense against the general public who believes they have an absolute right to go anywhere, any time for any reason on MY property...had warden, sheriff, deputy out 3 days ago to arrest 3 out of county idiots who had driven an interstate road across my planted wheat to set up feeder, stand & live traps...finally after two weeks i found them there, when i told them they were trespassing they told me they had Lease on all that ground & they had a RIGHT to do whatever.....the judge will verify who has rights........
  • iluvgunsiluvguns Member Posts: 5,351
    edited November -1
    quote:IF you have gates and your property marked as private,..the DNR can NOT even come onto your property without an invitation. They CAN wait for you at the road or gate,..but can't come onto private property without permission.

    They can in Tennessee!

    quote: iluvguns, can't you file a complaint with the head man at the TWRA?


    I did. He is the guy who told me the warden was "just doing his job."

    I'm not bashing all wardens. In the past the guys and gals here have been great. But all the old-timers that I grew up around have retired. Some of, if not most, of the new ones act like jack-booted thugs.
  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    quote:But, after checking it out, there is nothing I can do. A game warden, at least in TN, can enter private property anytime they feel like it, and there isn't a dang thing you can do.


    I'd do some more checking. While they may have the "right to enter" that does not necessarily mean they have "the right to drive" wherever they want. "Right to enter" generally means they may enter land by walking on or driving on estabished roads or trails and generally with probable cause. I highly doubt the law gives them "carte blance" to drive anywhere they please uless pursuing someone in the commission of a crime. I wouldn't take "their word for it". I would write them a certified letter letting them know they are welcome to patrol your property provided they can do so in a manner that they do not damage it and if they continue to damage it you will take legal action. You could also fence off the access and put up "no driving" signs and maybe place a few large rocks or plant a few tree or instal "spike strips" at their access point.
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is a story from here in PA,

    Pa. court lets game wardens pursue investigations on posted land

    Nov 21, 2007

    By MARK SCOLFORO
    Associated Press Writer


    HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) -- Game wardens may enter posted land to investigate hunting violations, a divided state Supreme Court ruled in a case that originated in the opening minutes of the 2002 bear-hunting season.

    Landowners do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy against enforcement of state game law, the court said in a 4-3 decision Tuesday that endorsed the "open fields doctrine" that most other states have in place.

    "The citizens of this commonwealth throughout our history have shown a keen interest in protecting and preserving as an asset the diverse wildlife that find refuge in the fields and forests within our borders," Justice Ronald D. Castille wrote for the majority. "This interest is so strong that it is enshrined by a separate provision of the Pennsylvania Constitution."

    The defendant, Joseph Russo Jr., was ordered to pay $3,600 in fines and restitution after game officers concluded that he used an 80-square-foot pile of mashed apples to bait a bear near his hunting cabin in remote Mehoopany Township, Wyoming County.

    DNA evidence matched blood found at the apple mash pile - along with bear tracks - with a bear carcass seized from Russo's home in Pittston. He was found guilty of unlawful taking of game and using an illegal device to hunt.

    Russo appealed, arguing that the search of property posted with no-trespassing signs violated state constitutional protections against unreasonable search and seizure.

    Chief Justice Ralph J. Cappy argued in a dissenting opinion that state game law unconstitutionally allows entry onto posted land without any level of suspicion of illegal activity.

    Richard Palmer, director of the Pennsylvania Game Commission's wildlife bureau, said wildlife conservation officers have to be allowed access to woodlands and other properties in order to do their job effectively.

    "This ruling is a positive result that will enable the agency to continue its mission to manage all wild birds and mammals and their habitats for current and future generations," Palmer said.

    Although the case involved a Game Commission officer, Russo's lawyer, Andrew Bigda, said it could prompt other types of investigators to freely enter private, posted land without a warrant.

    "It could arguably be used by all law enforcement," Bigda said. "It's a really big diminishment of property rights and property owners in Pennsylvania."

    As a result of the ruling, Russo expects to have his hunting license suspended under the Game Commission's guidelines, Bigda said. Russo maintains that he did not bait the bear.



    Also in Pennsylvania Game Laws supercede all other laws meaning during big game seasons you CANNOT even target shoot unless at an approved range and walking around the woods with an AK47 during deer season WILL get you arrested, argue all you want and make all the threats you want but that is the way it is here.
  • fishermanbenfishermanben Member Posts: 15,370
    edited November -1
    game wardens don't need a search warrant to check your freezer for wild game in Illinois.

    They can pretty much go on property if they think anyone might be harvesting game--not breaking the law, just harvesting game(fishing/hunting).

    Ben
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    Carry the pistol during hunting season, and don't wear or carry gear that would imply you were hunting.
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here in West Virginia a DNR officer has more authority than a state policeman.

    They can search public and private property including automobiles at any time or place that they wish without a warrant.

    All they need is due cause to conduct a search and it does not need to be over game laws.
  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've wondered the same thing. Does carrying a rifle near deer season imply guilt? Would I be best to refuse to say a thing to the warden if confronted?
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,668 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "used an 80-square-foot pile of mashed apples to bait a bear near his hunting cabin in remote Mehoopany Township, Wyoming County.

    DNA evidence matched blood found at the apple mash pile - along with bear tracks - with a bear carcass seized from Russo's home in Pittston"

    My God what a wild man. He had an 80 foot by 80 foot pile of apples for baiting bear. What is that, three dump truck loads of apples? This guy was a serious poacher.
    And, DNR took blood samples from the apple mash pile, and compared the DNA with that from the bear meat at Russo's home. DNR isn't playing games up there in Yankeeland.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mashed apples were the remains of juicing for cider, not just bear bait. BUT good riddance to a poacher!

    The Game and Fish or DNR regulations vary by state. If you are in the woods with a .22 in deer season in many places that is automatically considered hunting deer with a .22. If you are 14 you might convince them you thought you were hunting squirrels. In many states they have authority on private land, and in the states I have hunted will come on private land to check licenses. On your own land they are unlikely to cite you, but I would leave the AK in the house during the deer season just to make live simpler.
  • CaptplaidCaptplaid Member Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    "used an 80-square-foot pile of mashed apples to bait a bear near his hunting cabin in remote Mehoopany Township, Wyoming County.

    DNA evidence matched blood found at the apple mash pile - along with bear tracks - with a bear carcass seized from Russo's home in Pittston"

    My God what a wild man. He had an 80 foot by 80 foot pile of apples for baiting bear. What is that, three dump truck loads of apples? This guy was a serious poacher.
    And, DNR took blood samples from the apple mash pile, and compared the DNA with that from the bear meat at Russo's home. DNR isn't playing games up there in Yankeeland.


    naw it's only 9x9 ft
  • GotteskriegerGotteskrieger Member Posts: 3,170 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
    Here in West Virginia a DNR officer has more authority than a state policeman.

    They can search public and private property including automobiles at any time or place that they wish without a warrant.

    All they need is due cause to conduct a search and it does not need to be over game laws.



    you're saying he can march in my house and search it without a warrant or exigent circumstances?
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