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Homebrewers Question

RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
edited April 2013 in General Discussion
I just made a batch of barleywine on the 23rd. I used a smack-pack of yeast. It swelled up fine. Added it to the wort at 70ish and set it in the back room to start fermenting.

I haven't had a single bubble in the airlock. The temp is 65-66 and I have never had a problem getting a stuck fermentation before.

My question is How much longer should I wait before adding a pack of some backup dry yeast? This barleywine kit has Champagne yeast to be added in the secondary. I don't have anywhere warmer in the house. That is the temp the house is at most of the year. There is a secondary of 6-month plus Mead that is still fermenting through an S-type Airlock.

This is probably only my 6th batch of beer and still a newbie.

Comments

  • CbtEngr01CbtEngr01 Member Posts: 4,340
    edited November -1
    never used the smack pack kit.
    Did you use a good cleaner on your ferminting container? Good clean water? I use rain or mountain water. Add the right amount of pectin and yeast nutrient?

    May have been a bad barley kit. Was it malted?

    My best guess, however, it either got too hot or too cold. Some yeasts require a larger air lock or none at all (like turbo yeast 24 hr). If you put an air lock on that stuff itll make so much heat while ferminting itll kill itself. But dont know bout smack pack
  • RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is the kit I used. With the Wyeast Activator yeast.

    http://www.midwestsupplies.com/bigfoot-s-barleywine.html#

    Used Star-San cleaner and have always used this brand of sanitizer with good results.

    Uses two types of malt extract.

    The only difference to the kit that I added was some brown sugar to increase the alcohol content. If anything I would think it would make it ferment quicker.

    First time that I am dealing with a stuck fermentation. I do have some backup dry yeast packs but the Wyeast is supposed to be a strain for a barleywine.
  • CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What kind of yeast was it? (I love those smack-packs, usually very reliable)
  • RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
    What kind of yeast was it? (I love those smack-packs, usually very reliable)


    I used a Wyeast Activator, not sure on the exact strain as it doesn't list it on the site. I activated it and it swelled up nicely and was room temperature when I added it to the 70ish degree wort. I use a wort chiller and add the wort to extra water to make up the 5 gallons. Can't do full boils at this time. I only use spring water at this time as my tap water is terrible.
  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What Wyeast style came with the kit? I would have worked up a 1 liter starter for a barleywine, but most Wyeast smack packs will recover from being underpitched. Sometimes you'll end up with high diacetyl or a stuck fermentation, but your champagne yeast in the secondary should handle that.

    http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-pitch-rates.cfm

    Did you aerate the Wort before adding your yeast?

    You could give the fermenter a couple stirs with a sanitized spoon.

    You'd probably need to raise the temp in the room a few degrees for a while if you can.
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry, I didn't see the last couple posts before posting.
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think it was the London Ale Activator

    http://www.midwestsupplies.com/london-ale-activator-wyeast-act1028-4-25-oz-bundle.html

    I have never used a starter before but have read that it is always a good idea. I used to use the White Labs tubes, but liked that the smack-packs swelled and let you know that the yeast was still active.

    I aerated well before putting the cover and airlock on. I have had some very active fermentations and just change the airlock about twice a day. The airlock has a solution of water and Star-San to keep contamination down.

    I have shaken the bucket all around trying to get it stirred up some.

    Gonna be gone most of the day tomorrow, will probably have to crank the heat in the house. Not zoned very well, heat is on everywhere.
  • MossbergboogieMossbergboogie Member Posts: 12,211
    edited November -1
    Temp sounds on the low side. Pull it up a few degrees and add some nutrient.

    Check your specific gravity to see if it did ferment.
  • RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mossbergboogie
    Temp sounds on the low side. Pull it up a few degrees and add some nutrient.

    Check your specific gravity to see if it did ferment.


    I'm gonna try to boost the temp. Unfortunately have no nutrient, never ordered any as I have never needed any before now.

    I broke the hydrometer on about the first batch and have just been letting the fermentations go long and watching the airlocks for the slowdown at the end of fermentation. Not the correct way I know, but it has been working so far.

    If I can't get it to start, will using a dry yeast in a Barleywine be ok?
  • MossbergboogieMossbergboogie Member Posts: 12,211
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by RUGERGUNZ
    quote:Originally posted by Mossbergboogie
    Temp sounds on the low side. Pull it up a few degrees and add some nutrient.

    Check your specific gravity to see if it did ferment.


    I'm gonna try to boost the temp. Unfortunately have no nutrient, never ordered any as I have never needed any before now.

    I broke the hydrometer on about the first batch and have just been letting the fermentations go long and watching the airlocks for the slowdown at the end of fermentation. Not the correct way I know, but it has been working so far.

    If I can't get it to start, will using a dry yeast in a Barleywine be ok?


    Dry yeast will be fine but barley wine will kill out a lot of it before it gets to desired alcohol content. Know your yeasts capablities.

    PS get a new hydrometer.
  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You would typically need two or more activator packs to correctly pitch into a barleywine without using a starter. Diacetyl is the main concern.

    You typically don't need to replace airlocks throughout a fermentation, btw. Starsan is good for a few weeks and as long as the airlock isn't under negative pressure it won't matter if it was just water. It's to keep wild yeasts out of your fermenter. Plain water would be fine.


    Best thing to have done was to get a starting gravity measurement and then check it a week later. To see if there is any activity at all.
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Barleywine has a very high original gravity so lots of food for the little yeastys, should be OK if the pack swelled.

    66 is too cold for Ale yeasts. 68-73 is ideal.
  • pietro75pietro75 Member Posts: 7,048
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Cubslover G16
    You would typically need two or more activator packs to correctly pitch into a barleywine without using a starter. Diacetyl is the main concern.

    You typically don't need to replace airlocks throughout a fermentation, btw. Starsan is good for a few weeks and as long as the airlock isn't under negative pressure it won't matter if it was just water. It's to keep wild yeasts out of your fermenter. Plain water would be fine.


    Best thing to have done was to get a starting gravity measurement and then check it a week later. To see if there is any activity at all.


    Pretty good advice here. It won't hurt to pitch more yeast.

    Do I understand that you did not take an OG reading?

    Sometimes when the temp is cool it takes awhile for it to take off. But 4 days is pretty long.

    You could take a reading now, and take a reading tomorrow and if it has dropped any something is happening. Again, you can pitch another packet of yeast.

    Hope it works out for you, we all have had a batch that didn't work out.
  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
    Barleywine has a very high original gravity so lots of food for the little yeastys, should be OK if the pack swelled.

    66 is too cold for Ale yeasts. 68-73 is ideal.


    There is no way that one pack is sufficient for a barleywine. A one liter starter would be just enough. One smackpack is good up to around a 1.060 SG. Something like an 8+% barleywine should start well into the 1.08s.

    Also, certain ale yeasts can and will ferment down intothe 50s. That is a reason I asked, although most high alcohol yeasts prefer warmer temps 66-72. Wyeast's site will tell you if you know the strain.

    The problem with underpitching is that the yeast will overeat and their own reproduction slows. Giving a slower fermentation and higher diacetyl (buttery flavor).
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • mango tangomango tango Member Posts: 3,833 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Check the date on the yeast, if it's old or out of date, it won't work!
  • RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks everyone. I moved it last night and it is about 74 now. I will let it sit there for a day or two and if no activity will pitch more yeast. Can't order more smack-packs for awhile till my road becomes passable again, and no shops within 100 miles. Busy the next few days with coast guard certifications, launching the boat and getting gear overboard.

    My primary is a white 6-gallon bucket, so I can't see the wort and don't know if there is a krausen yet. I really don't like to open the primary.

    The yeast packaging already got eaten by the woodboiler, so I can't check the date. I have been sitting on this kit for awhile but where the package swelled thought I was good to go.

    This is the first Barleywine I have tried to make. Next time I will order extra yeast, and maybe get the equipment for yeast starters.

    Cubs, the only reason I was changing airlocks so often was that I had a very active fermentation and it kept bubbling the krausen up into the airlock. So I would keep replacing it with a fresh one and clean up any mess to avoid contamination and fruit flies.
  • pietro75pietro75 Member Posts: 7,048
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by RUGERGUNZ
    Thanks everyone. I moved it last night and it is about 74 now. I will let it sit there for a day or two and if no activity will pitch more yeast. Can't order more smack-packs for awhile till my road becomes passable again, and no shops within 100 miles. Busy the next few days with coast guard certifications, launching the boat and getting gear overboard.

    My primary is a white 6-gallon bucket, so I can't see the wort and don't know if there is a krausen yet. I really don't like to open the primary.

    The yeast packaging already got eaten by the woodboiler, so I can't check the date. I have been sitting on this kit for awhile but where the package swelled thought I was good to go.

    This is the first Barleywine I have tried to make. Next time I will order extra yeast, and maybe get the equipment for yeast starters.

    Cubs, the only reason I was changing airlocks so often was that I had a very active fermentation and it kept bubbling the krausen up into the airlock. So I would keep replacing it with a fresh one and clean up any mess to avoid contamination and fruit flies.


    I prefer using a blow-off tube. for just this reason. Aforementioned, you can take a gravity reading today and one in about three days. If it drops your in business.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You added brown sugar. Is this cane sugar, or corn sugar?
    If cane sugar that is a mistake. It will make the beer taste bad. You only want to use corn sugar.
  • RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    You added brown sugar. Is this cane sugar, or corn sugar?
    If cane sugar that is a mistake. It will make the beer taste bad. You only want to use corn sugar.


    Not really sure what it was. I used Walmart light brown sugar. The website says that it can be cane, beet or corn or a mixture of any. I have added this sugar to past batches that I thought came out well. I was under the impression not to add any white sugar but that brown sugars were ok.

    The airlock has started to bubble now that the wort is warmer.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well if you have used it before then, what can I say?

    I am not sure about brown sugar but white cane sugar will mess it up. Don't ask how I know.
  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sugar is an easy way to get your SG up to where you want it after mashing at a poor efficiency or if you're just wanting a high ABV brew ala Malt Liquors.

    Brown sugar is nothing but white cane sugar and molasses. The molasses adds some nice flavor, but white sugar ferments thin and give a cidery flavor. Small amounts are ok, but more than a pound and it will be a cider.

    Belgian candy sugars are used quite often, they give great flavors without having to worry about that cidery finish/
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, cubslover, add 2 1/2 cups of cane sugar to the beer and it will taste cidery. That is the word I was looking for.
  • pietro75pietro75 Member Posts: 7,048
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    Yes, cubslover, add 2 1/2 cups of cane sugar to the beer and it will taste cidery. That is the word I was looking for.


    If I choose to "boost" any brews I use corn sugar.

    Those Mr. Beer kits always had a "booster" in them.
  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pietro75
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    Yes, cubslover, add 2 1/2 cups of cane sugar to the beer and it will taste cidery. That is the word I was looking for.


    If I choose to "boost" any brews I use corn sugar.

    Those Mr. Beer kits always had a "booster" in them.


    The Booster packs were only because they gave you about 12-14oz of Malt Extract, not nearly enough for the 2gal they make. That Booster pack of Corn sugar was meant to bring up the ABv.

    I still mash with an extra pound of 2-row in case of poor effeciency.
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • dan kellydan kelly Member Posts: 9,799
    edited November -1
    did you check the lid on your fermenter and make sure it`s sealed ok?

    sometimes the simplest things give you the answer.
  • midnightrunpaintballermidnightrunpaintballer Member Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have two complete homebrew kits. Neither has ever been used. If there is any interest, I'll set up a BIN. Email me if you like. I didn't realize this many people home brewed. I Dont know what's good/bad or what you look for.
  • RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dan kelly
    did you check the lid on your fermenter and make sure it`s sealed ok?

    sometimes the simplest things give you the answer.


    It was sealed tight, just needed to warm it up some by putting it in a warmer room. It is bubbling along fine now, actually had to make a blowoff tube for the first time. It is very active. Hopefully the brown sugar didn't ruin it, guess I will know come around december.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by midnightrunpaintballer
    I have two complete homebrew kits. Neither has ever been used. If there is any interest, I'll set up a BIN. Email me if you like. I didn't realize this many people home brewed. I Dont know what's good/bad or what you look for.


    You want your beermaking ingredients to be as fresh as possible. If your kits have been sitting around gathering dust for several years, they would still make beer, but the quality would not be top notch.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is a good one, Flying Clay Disc. A pickle bucket and no air lock.
    Did it occur to this genius that platic holds, and releases flavor?
    Had he not been so inept, he would have made a batch of "Dill Pickle Ale."

    Back in the fifties, I remember my dad and the neighbor, Mr. Hessel, made a batch of beer in our kitchen.
    Let's just say, my dad was a mechanical klutz. When it came to building a dog house, or changing the oil, he wasn't too good.
    Well he wasn't much of a brewmaster either.

    Thank God, once the two guys had bottled the beer, Mr. Hessel took the entire batch over to his house to age in the basement.

    I was over there a few weeks later playing with the Hessel kids and I opened the basement door. I said "It smells like beer!"
    Craig said "Close the door! We can't go down there we may get killed by hand grenades."

    It turned out the guys had put too much sugar in the beer and the bottles were exploding in Mr. Hessel's basement.

    I said "Come on, Craig. Your parents aren't home. Let's go down there I want to see."

    Craig didn't like it but he could tell I was going one way or another.
    I went down those stairs. The basement floor was covered with glass, mixed in with a dozen beer caps. There sticky nasty beer muck all over the basement floor. It smelled like nasty stale beer.
    I looked over at the two cases of beer sitting there. About a dozen bottles had exploded already.

    I decided Craig's parents weren't so dumb, and I got out of that basement fast. Looked like a good place to get killed by a beer hand grenade.
  • pietro75pietro75 Member Posts: 7,048
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Cubslover G16
    quote:Originally posted by pietro75
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    Yes, cubslover, add 2 1/2 cups of cane sugar to the beer and it will taste cidery. That is the word I was looking for.


    If I choose to "boost" any brews I use corn sugar.

    Those Mr. Beer kits always had a "booster" in them.


    The Booster packs were only because they gave you about 12-14oz of Malt Extract, not nearly enough for the 2gal they make. That Booster pack of Corn sugar was meant to bring up the ABv.

    I still mash with an extra pound of 2-row in case of poor effeciency.


    I do the same. I'm always a little heavy on the grain. What's the wort that can happen?[:p]
  • midnightrunpaintballermidnightrunpaintballer Member Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    quote:Originally posted by midnightrunpaintballer
    I have two complete homebrew kits. Neither has ever been used. If there is any interest, I'll set up a BIN. Email me if you like. I didn't realize this many people home brewed. I Dont know what's good/bad or what you look for.


    You want your beermaking ingredients to be as fresh as possible. If your kits have been sitting around gathering dust for several years, they would still make beer, but the quality would not be top notch.


    Agreed, but the big jugs, bottles, etc are all brand new. You will just need fresh ingredients. Just trying to help someone out who might want to get started. I don't drink enough beer to be worth my time home brewing. Got both of these kits as gifts.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,666 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I didn't know you meant that you had all the equipment to brew beer.
    Just the ingredients, hops, malt, etc are referred to as "kits" also.

    Well I have all that stuff but somebody on this forum might be interested. I don't know how you could do it, maybe you could sell that stuff on the auction, or, you could give it away. Post some pics.
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Did you mix the water, DME and nutrient and boil it for for about 15 to 20 minutes to sterilize it?

    The pour the mixture into a sanitized jar and cover to cool until it reached 70 to 75 degrees then add the yeast to get the process started. It can take 24 to 36 hours for the yeast to start working.

    65-66F is to cold for the yeast to work properly.
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