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Is this tacticool or what!
Jorge
Member Posts: 10,656 ✭✭
Comments
where do you get a holster for that?
I'm thinking you would resort to the sling with this modle
tactigay[V]
+
Plus, it needs one of Spider's Ka-Bar bayonets !!
Doug
the human badguys (you know, sort of like the anti-SG1) had some kind of strange pistol/SMG things that were compact and fired annoyingly fast [:D]
https://armamentsales.sslpowered.com/downloads/100rd Adapter.wmv
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
It would be a SBR with the stock if it was not a full auto. Since that gun is a full auto it trumps SBR. That funny thing on the back of the slide is a selector switch. To be legal it would still need to be registered as a full auto.
https://armamentsales.sslpowered.com/downloads/100rd Adapter.wmv
I have seen and shot several Glock 18's and not a single one had that thing on the back of the slide. That is actually a device you can buy online to illegally convert your glock to Full Auto, if you were inclined to do something as stupid. A true Glock 18 has a selector switch located at the rear of the left side of the slide...
This gun is NOT full auto and that makes it an SBR.
Make up your mind if this gun is full auto or not you claim that it is and then that it is not. Pick on please.
Please show me the proof that this gun was ILLEGALLY converted. Why do you know it is not a legal conversion? I never said it was a Glock 18, I said it was full auto.
If it is not a legal full auto then it is illegal no matter if it has a stock or not or SBRed or not.
Ok, here is the skinny on illegal conversions. Ok, you ready? If it is full auto and it was made after 1986 it is illegally converted. You cannot convert or register ANY full auto weapon since the 1986 ban. So, since Glock was not in the US in 1986 it cannot be a legally converted full auto pistol.
HOWEVER! If you are a Class 3 dealer and you have a letter of intent from alomost ANY Law Enforcement group, you can request a Dealer sample of virtually ANY machine gun for a small price. You can then take this weapon to a Class 3 range and allow the officials, agents or officiers to fire the gun. Afterward, the dept can choose to purchase weapond from you, or they may choose not to. Either way you are entitled to keep the dealer sample for as long as you maintain you class 3 license. Otherwise you will have to sell or donate it to a law enforcement group or have it destroyed in the presence of an ATF agent.
Is that good enough? Or would you like more... lol
Basically, if you have to add something to the gun to make it full auto, it is illegal. There are a few exceptions. If you have a Mfg. License you can convert all the machine guns you want, and use them freely. However, you cannot transfere them or sell them.
Well I think I am ready but you just two sided yourself again. How do you know it is not a Post dealer sample since in this case it would be a Post sample and not just a dealer sample?
So again no proof that this is an illegal conversion. Got it.
And of course Mfg can sell and transfer all the Post samples they want, it just has to be to qualified buyers.
That Glock may not even be in the United States for all we know.
AAAWWWW come on. You know we are the only country with internet since Gore invented it. What are you thinking [:D][:D][}:)]
No glock has a selector switch on the rear of the slide. NONE, nota, zero, zilch! look at the picture, do you see any dufuss oatmeal hanging off the back of the slide? NO!
The proof is the selctor switch in on the rear of the gun. As I said earlier and you must not have read, the selector switch is towards the rear on the left side of the slide.
Well I guess I am too dumb to know that there are no Glocks with selectors on the back. You got me there, I have no way to argue with that.
I never once claimed it to be a G18, which would have the selector on the side. All I claimed was that this gun was a FA based on the selector. For all we know the gun in the pic could not even a 9mm and the G18 is a 9mm.
I asked to prove that it was an illegal gun. If it was even in the US as MVP was so kind to point out that does not make it automatically illegal.
I am willing to guess more then half of the Full Auto Glocks in the country are conversions and not real G18's due to the price and availability. I dont have proof to back that up other then when reading post or seeing videos about the lucky guys with FA Glocks few are actual G18's.
How are there so many legal conversion out there, the guys that have spent the time and money to deal and make NFA items are making them.
Now I agree with you 100% that if a guy goes out in his shop and makes a gun full auto it is illegal and there is no legal way to register it.
FWIW here is a direct link to the most current NFA rules direct from the ATF, http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/index.htm
Here is a pic of the style of end plate on the gun in the pic. I am not saying this is a G18, or that is it even made by Glock. I am saying it IS a style of selector that will fit any of the standard size Glocks. I am not saying this is legal for the average Joe here in the US. I am just showing what is on the back of the gun in the pic.
Here is another style:
Another:
If you are interested here is the thread where these pics came from, http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7782
I believe you will have to register with the site to view them but there is 4 pages of info there right now including CAD drawings of many of the designs.
not Nwcid
This begin as a discussion on SBR vs F/A. not sure how you managed to morph it into what it has become, asking for proof it is an illgal conversion or proof it is even in our country.
We got there when you said, " That is actually a device you can buy online to illegally convert your glock to Full Auto......" so I wanted to know how you know it was illegal. I thought it was a simple question. Problem is there is no way to tell from a pic what status it has so how can you state that adding the device is illegal? There are ways to LEGALLY add the device.
quote:
Nwcid Posted:
"It would be a SBR with the stock if it was not a full auto. Since that gun is a full auto it trumps SBR. That funny thing on the back of the slide is a selector switch. To be legal it would still need to be registered as a full auto".
First point, F/A trumps SBR only to avoid a double NFA tax on a single weapon. So we agree on this.
Yep
quote:
Second point, there is NO selctor switch on the gun in the original picture. A selector switch would give you the option of burst or full auto. The gun pictured has a device installed that allows the gun to shoot full auto. You can even see this in the video link you provided. When I said this gun was not full auto, I was speaking in terms of legality not factualy. Yes, the gun is capable of firing full auto because of the conversion.
There is a selector hanging off the back, it allows single shot or FA. A selector is not for burst or full auto, it is for selecting an option. So based on that statement the military has no "select fire" M16's (whatever version you want including M4) as they only come in burst or full auto not both. Even AR-15's have selector switches. It selects between safe and semi auto.
Again speaking in terms of legality how do you know it is illegal, how do you KNOW it is not a post dealer sample?
quote:
Third point, you say in your post "to be legal it would have to be registered as full auto". So make up your mind. is the gun in our country or not? I was under the impression you (like myself) assumed it was here. Not many threads on foreign guns right? So my comment was it is a post '86 gun and it is not capable of being registered. You then replied by saying how do I know it is illegally converted and what proof did I have. I think I have cleared that up as well. You also wanted to know how I knew it was not a post dealer sample. Pretty obvious.
Well I made the point about it needing to be registered prior to MVP pointing out the location part. I had assumed it was here because we do dumb things like that and you know what they say about assuming.
Even post '86 guns have to be registered to be legal. Being registered is not the same as being transferable. I agree that a post dealer sample is not a transferable (as a class of machine gun) gun. Being there are 3 types of MG Transferable, Pre-Dealer sample, and Post-Dealer samples the rules for each style would have to be followed to transfer the gun.
Please tell me again how is it "obvious" that it is not a post dealer sample. I have no idea how to tell from a picture and I would like to learn. This gun is one of 3 things:
1. Not in this country, no worries
2. Illegal conversion by buba in his shop
3. A legal post dealer sample that C3 shop made from a stock Glock ($500) and the conversion parts either fairly cheep or made vs dropping $3000+ for a real G18.
So from a pic how can you tell what it is? I would love to know.
Jesus Christ, DUDE!
I never said you said it was a Glock 18 or not, OK? And I never said the gun could not be converted either! These are all possibilities to make one shoot full auto but these are also illegal methods! You can buy and own these parts but you get caught with one installed on the gun and you are toast! Don't you get it???
Only illegal unless you are a qualified buyer or maker.
quote:
You are confusing two different issues! You can convert the gun yes! You cannot register the guns you convert. You can go to prison for having a converted gun.
Even C3 guys have to register the guns. They are just registered as post dealer samples.
quote:
And none of those pictures show a single selector switch. They are modifications to make a gun full auto.
bleen ME YOU ARE DENSE!
All of those pics are selectors. In one position they are full auto and in the other they are semi auto. If they were going for strictly FA you would not need that many parts.
The top one rotates 180*
The middle one pushes left and right
In the bottom one you can see the two notches
They work basically the same way the selector does on the G18.
Nwcid i see your very valid point and so do those who count
I was not trying to beat the guy up.
I guess it would have just been easier to ask how can one KNOW the legal status of a firearm (or anything else) just from a pic.
Heck half the HK guns out there have FA lowers or at least markings on them but are still just simple legal semi auto guns that people dress up to look as close to the real thing as they can get. NO real way to tell from a pic in most cases.
You could put a 454 emblem on the side of a nice Chevy SS car but that does not mean it really has a 454 under the hood........
It is impossible to make any gun legally full auto if it was mfg. after 1986. You cannot register it. Any gun made post 1986 that is converted to full auto is illegal, meaning it cannot be registered.
The 1986 ban prohibits the import of any f/a weapons not for military or LE use. It bans the mfg of new F/A for use other than Military or LE. No gun converted or made full auto in any way after 1986 is not legal and cannot be registered.
Right and wrong. ALL NFA items no matter WHO owns it (maybe other then the US military not sure how they do it) has to be registered. ALL NFA items need to be REGISTERED.
Just because a gun is registered does not make it transferable to non-qualified buyers, but it is still registered.
While all Transferable guns (as a class of gun) are registered, not all registered guns are Transferable (as a class of gun).
quote:And one other thing, if you are right and anyone and everyone can do this, why are machine guns $10, $15 or $20K or higher? If anyone could make them they would as common remington shotguns.
Machine guns are not $10, $15, $20k in price (for most), only TRANSFERABLE (as in a class of gun) (which means they were registered as such prior to '86 GOPA) command those high prices. While a Transferable (as a class of gun) M-16 will command a price around $15k, Pre-Dealer samples carry about 75% the price tag of a Transferable (as a class of gun), and a brand new off the shelf M4 is about $1000 but will be a Post-Dealer sample. ALL are 100% legal but carry different rules for ownership.
quote:Now you are trying to say you point was that you could not tell by simply looking at a picture. Glocks were not imported before 1986. Not legal to convert and cannot register them. That's all you have to know. The picture does say it all.
The pic does not tell me it is illegal. The only thing the pic tells me is that is a converted gun made after '86 so it is not a TRANSFERABLE (as in a class of gun). Just because a gun is not Transferable (as a class of gun) does not make it illegal, it just carries different rules.
quote:And since when did semi auto designate a selector switch? All guns have a safe and a fire. That doesn't mean it has a selector switch. And just how do you know it is a legal gun by just looking at?
Well in the case of AR style guns, HK's, FAL's, ect and look up parts you will see the part that selects the function called a selector not a safety.
I am not claiming it is legal or illegal. I was asking how you know it is illegal as I am not able to tell from a simple picture. All I can tell is that is was converted as some point so it is not a Transferable (as a class of gun) machine gun.
quote:No matter what you think, if the slide is altered to fire f/a, the gun is not legal to register and only a person with a mfg license possess said weapon.
Read the part above about being registered.
We are just not going to see eye to eye on this. I posted the ATF NFA hand but that has all the actual rules in it.
Welcome to GunBroker.
What do you want to fight about, now ??
Doug
You asked "I wanted to know how you know it was illegal". It is illegal because it is not a factory original part. Absoulte no LE will use a gun that has been converted with non authorized parts. In the picture the switch is located on the back of the slide which is not factory authorized. Hence, illegal.
See now we are getting somewhere. Just because it is not "factory" does not make it illegal. Where any where in the NFA rules does it say things have to be factory parts?
quote:
2. Illegal conversion by buba in his shop (This is exactly the case because no mfg would send a dealer sample with aftermarket parts on it.)
No but a lot of the makers build things just to see if they can do it. Not all post-dealer samples come from the name brand makers. If a department wanted FA Glock 22's (.40) the only choice would be to build one with aftermarket parts.
quote:
Where did you get that stupid $3000 for a dealer sample for a Glock 18? What makes you think a f/a Glock would cost more than a regular Glock? I get my LE Glocks (LE has 3rd Clip) for $415 all day long. What * are you buying from? lol
Prove the gun is full auto! lol
I stand corrected on the price. Last ones I saw for sale they wanted $3000 for. I think they where having a hard time getting them imported at the time or something along those lines. I just checked and this is what I found on price from 8-31-07:
I have an OMB catalog next to me. It's listed as...
$507 standard sights / $532 standard sights compensated.
$559 Glock night sights / $584 Glock night sights compensated
$597 Trijicon night sights / $604 Trijicon night sights compensated.
G18 comes with case and 2 17rd magazines
Source is Glocktalk.com
I will say the reason guys use the backs is because they can put them on any of the Glocks that use the standard size back.