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Friday I saw 2 bucks and 4 does, saturday I saw 1 buck and abou 25-30 does and over 100 fresh beds. Unfortunately since there was nobody out I was walking and attempting to jump shoot..... the bucks did not give good shots so I came home empty. I saw a few guys who were standing 5 feet from the road saying there were no deer left. The problems are not that there are no deer, there are just not enough hunters, and the ones there are are all lazy and standing around. There are plenty of deer in the brush but you have to work for them.
I lived and hunted in PA during the first years of the combined seasons and increased doe tags (2001-2005). What I saw during that time is that there were a lot of deer in 2001 but not many quality deer. Lots of does and yearlings but most of the bucks that I saw were spikes and fork-horns. I also saw a lot of guys that would empty their guns at a spike in full sprint at 150 yards. Not what I would call responsible hunting. By 2005, I wasn't seeing as many deer but the bucks that I was seeing were better quality.
The reason behind increasing the doe kill are many, but the major points are if the buck to doe ratio is too high it is not good for the bucks. During the rut, bucks don't rest or eat much. If there are a lot of does in heat, and not a lot of bucks in the area, what will happen is that they will literally run themselves to death trying to breed all of the does. A doe that isn't bred the first time will come into heat again in about 28 days, so what you have is a doe who may come into heat 2 to 3 times before getting bred. So, you have a buck running crazy for 2-3 months trying to breed all the does and not eating right and then winter sets in. It kills them.
For those of you who don't believe in killing does, I will use GA as an example. The first QDM project was started here. The county that I hunt in (Meriwether) has had antler restrictions for many years. We can also shoot 10 does and 2 bucks per year. There are many Booners killed down there every year. And there are still plenty of deer. So, I personally don't think your arguement holds water.
Another point. I have seen how a lot of guys in PA "hunt". It equates to stomping through the woods and shooting at anything with antlers. Now, before you get bent out of shape, I am not acusing you of this tactic, but I saw it A LOT! Now, the younger bucks aren't legal, so they survive. How long do you think it takes them to figure out to head for the thick stuff and only come out at night come fall? Not long at all. So, instead of thinking that there aren't any deer left, try walking back in a little farther and get away from the other hunters. The best buck I have taken in my life so far I killed in 2004 in PA. It was on public land and I had been told by a lot of guys that I worked with that there were no deer left there because of too many "idiots" killing all the does. I did some serious scouting and walked back in. I spent the whole day there and didn't see another hunter all day. Just as it was getting dark, he came out and I hammered him. It was a lot of work getting him out, but it was worth it.
Sorry for the long post, but I just felt that I would share my experience.
Yesterday knowing that a storm was coming in I decided to go for a ride in the pickup, no gun as I don't even have a hunting license but just me and a couple cameras. I went to a state park that was once known for being an excellent place for deer that has many dirt roads that are only open for two weeks a year for deer season. You can drive out there all day and not see the same place twice, you can get into some areas that if you was to walk from the main roads it would take hours, perfect places to find deer while driving. Well I drove out there for hours yesterday not just looking for deer but looking for sign and man was I dissapointed!
In my experiance I have learned that deer are great weather forcasters, when a storm is moving in the deer will move from the mountains to a lower place, it happens. With that in mind I was expecting to catch some of that movement on camera, not alot but I figgered for ever 20 deer I may get to see one. I have been doing this a long time, belive me I know how the deer move around here.
Well after all that driving around and talking to a couple groups of hunters my predictions are true, there just isnt a noticable amount of deer left. The hunters I talked to put on drives in some of the thickest of areas where the deer hide, laurel patches and grown up clear cuts, they hunted hard. For an all day hunt they could count the deer they saw on one hand. I did not get to see any deer myself and the sign I saw was very low. Also the camps (as much as I hate these people because 90% of them are city slickers who have no respect for the locals) are vacant. Those camps are always full right up to today but they was empty. This tells me one thing, the hunting has gone to hell.
I was hoping to see some sign, some rubs, trails, browsed areas and so on but all I seen was a couple trails here and there and they did not show signs of heavy use. Now mind you I was able to drive in areas completely closed off to public travel for 50 weeks a year, this is where the deer are. You will not always see a deer on a ride like the one I took but you will always see where the deer are moving to and you can get an idea on where the herds are. A little bit of lazy man scouting if you will. Take this ride on the first Sat or Sun then you can plan a decent second week of hunting.
With the chatter from the other areas we have here open to public hunting such as the ACOE ground and the park I was in one can only think one thing, the dang deer have been over hunted. Yes there are places here in PA that still has deer but alot of them are unhuntable and other places, well PA is a large state, do you want to put 400 miles on your truck for one day of deer hunting? Yes that is very very possible to put 400 miles on a vehicle and never leaving the state and not driving in circles. A trip to the Poconos from where I live will put 400 miles on a truck easily for a round trip.
So, do we have a problem in PA with the deer herds? In places yes we do. Since the snow and sleet id falling right now I am getting ready to take another drive back out to Licking Creek and look at some other areas in hopes of seeing something other than a squirrel.
Those of you who had a successful season here in PA, congrats you are the minority. The larger bucks we have now will not last much longer since there are fewer does to give birth to them. Pretty soon PA will be like alot of other states, you want deer you will have to pay for a lease to have a decent chance at bagging a deer.
Please, if you hunting in a depressed area, don't shoot a doe. it is up to you the hunter to be a conservationist as well as a hunter, if you shoot the only doe you see today next year you may not even be lucky enough to see one. I know you bought the tags and you have the legal right to shoot the last deer standing but all I am asking just like 50,000 other hunters is asking, please show some restraint so that we don't become like other states where public land is worthless for deer hunting. Sometimes you need to conserve instead of pulling the trigger.
Handgun congrats on your deer.Alot of what your saying is true,but are bucks getting any bigger?and why?if so.My opinion is that doe#s are way down which is making the rut short.Kinda like what you said "not a lot of bucks in the area, what will happen is that they will literally run themselves to death trying to breed all of the does" where as now, the bucks aren't in their stupid state as long because of less does to breed.Which means less chance for hunters to harvest.
I'm not seeing any bigger racks now than I did 10 years ago.I think there were 5year olds running back then to.Now a days I don't see near as many hunters or deer.Are we turning once fellow hunters into anti-hunters? Thats what scares me,because I love to hunt.
PA Redneck Quotedquote:If you complain about the lack of deer and how you would like to see the deer herds come back QUIT SHOOTING THE DOES!!! I gave up hunting in PA, I havent bought a license here in two years and I doubt I will ever buy another one. My deer rifles are put up, I have no desires to even take them to the range. The politics and other things that are damaging the deer hunting here in PA has totaly turned me against it.
Guess who broke down and bought a PA. Deer License??? YUp You guessed it!!! YUP PA Redneck did!!!
Comments
The reason behind increasing the doe kill are many, but the major points are if the buck to doe ratio is too high it is not good for the bucks. During the rut, bucks don't rest or eat much. If there are a lot of does in heat, and not a lot of bucks in the area, what will happen is that they will literally run themselves to death trying to breed all of the does. A doe that isn't bred the first time will come into heat again in about 28 days, so what you have is a doe who may come into heat 2 to 3 times before getting bred. So, you have a buck running crazy for 2-3 months trying to breed all the does and not eating right and then winter sets in. It kills them.
For those of you who don't believe in killing does, I will use GA as an example. The first QDM project was started here. The county that I hunt in (Meriwether) has had antler restrictions for many years. We can also shoot 10 does and 2 bucks per year. There are many Booners killed down there every year. And there are still plenty of deer. So, I personally don't think your arguement holds water.
Another point. I have seen how a lot of guys in PA "hunt". It equates to stomping through the woods and shooting at anything with antlers. Now, before you get bent out of shape, I am not acusing you of this tactic, but I saw it A LOT! Now, the younger bucks aren't legal, so they survive. How long do you think it takes them to figure out to head for the thick stuff and only come out at night come fall? Not long at all. So, instead of thinking that there aren't any deer left, try walking back in a little farther and get away from the other hunters. The best buck I have taken in my life so far I killed in 2004 in PA. It was on public land and I had been told by a lot of guys that I worked with that there were no deer left there because of too many "idiots" killing all the does. I did some serious scouting and walked back in. I spent the whole day there and didn't see another hunter all day. Just as it was getting dark, he came out and I hammered him. It was a lot of work getting him out, but it was worth it.
Sorry for the long post, but I just felt that I would share my experience.
In my experiance I have learned that deer are great weather forcasters, when a storm is moving in the deer will move from the mountains to a lower place, it happens. With that in mind I was expecting to catch some of that movement on camera, not alot but I figgered for ever 20 deer I may get to see one. I have been doing this a long time, belive me I know how the deer move around here.
Well after all that driving around and talking to a couple groups of hunters my predictions are true, there just isnt a noticable amount of deer left. The hunters I talked to put on drives in some of the thickest of areas where the deer hide, laurel patches and grown up clear cuts, they hunted hard. For an all day hunt they could count the deer they saw on one hand. I did not get to see any deer myself and the sign I saw was very low. Also the camps (as much as I hate these people because 90% of them are city slickers who have no respect for the locals) are vacant. Those camps are always full right up to today but they was empty. This tells me one thing, the hunting has gone to hell.
I was hoping to see some sign, some rubs, trails, browsed areas and so on but all I seen was a couple trails here and there and they did not show signs of heavy use. Now mind you I was able to drive in areas completely closed off to public travel for 50 weeks a year, this is where the deer are. You will not always see a deer on a ride like the one I took but you will always see where the deer are moving to and you can get an idea on where the herds are. A little bit of lazy man scouting if you will. Take this ride on the first Sat or Sun then you can plan a decent second week of hunting.
With the chatter from the other areas we have here open to public hunting such as the ACOE ground and the park I was in one can only think one thing, the dang deer have been over hunted. Yes there are places here in PA that still has deer but alot of them are unhuntable and other places, well PA is a large state, do you want to put 400 miles on your truck for one day of deer hunting? Yes that is very very possible to put 400 miles on a vehicle and never leaving the state and not driving in circles. A trip to the Poconos from where I live will put 400 miles on a truck easily for a round trip.
So, do we have a problem in PA with the deer herds? In places yes we do. Since the snow and sleet id falling right now I am getting ready to take another drive back out to Licking Creek and look at some other areas in hopes of seeing something other than a squirrel.
Those of you who had a successful season here in PA, congrats you are the minority. The larger bucks we have now will not last much longer since there are fewer does to give birth to them. Pretty soon PA will be like alot of other states, you want deer you will have to pay for a lease to have a decent chance at bagging a deer.
Please, if you hunting in a depressed area, don't shoot a doe. it is up to you the hunter to be a conservationist as well as a hunter, if you shoot the only doe you see today next year you may not even be lucky enough to see one. I know you bought the tags and you have the legal right to shoot the last deer standing but all I am asking just like 50,000 other hunters is asking, please show some restraint so that we don't become like other states where public land is worthless for deer hunting. Sometimes you need to conserve instead of pulling the trigger.
I'm not seeing any bigger racks now than I did 10 years ago.I think there were 5year olds running back then to.Now a days I don't see near as many hunters or deer.Are we turning once fellow hunters into anti-hunters? Thats what scares me,because I love to hunt.
Guess who broke down and bought a PA. Deer License??? YUp You guessed it!!! YUP PA Redneck did!!!