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quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
Meteorologists can't even predict tomorrow's weather accurately. What do they know.
Captplaid,
Not much about the Global Warming situation is in the area of expertise of the common meteorologists. Meteorologists focus primarily on the study and prediction of short term weather patterns, not very long term variances in average Global temperature. The Global Warming situation is in the areas covered by Physicists of various disciplines, including those that have come to be known as Cosmologists. Meteorologists would be involved in the study of weather patterns produced by Global Warming, but wouldn't have much to do with the research into the causes, or solutions if there are any. There are what you may call "advanced meteorologists" that have moved into the Physics aspects of all the contributing factors of "weather" but they're not your everyday "weather man" on TV.
BTW, the meteorologists are pretty darn good at 24 hour weather predictions these days. They don't miss many calls here.[;)]
"The journal Energy and Environment is a social science journal published by Multi-Science. The journal's editor is Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen, a reader in geography at the University of Hull in England and climate skeptic.
Energy and Environment is not carried in the ISI listing of peer-reviewed journals. Its peer review process has been widely criticised for allowing the publication of substandard papers [1][2].
I don't know why so many of you are so in love with fossil fuels. Do you get some satisfaction out of filling up your truck at the gas pump, knowing that some of the money you pay for that gasoline is going to terrorist-supporting regimes in the Middle East (like the Saudis)? That's right, let's just keep on drinking the oil, sending umpteen billions of dollars to the Middle East and filling up the coffers of those who hate us. And since Venezuela is our fourth-largest oil supplier, we're helping to fund that regime as well.
And quite frankly, I can't think of anything SMARTER than having our entire national economy completely and totally dependent on the price of one commodity. When the price of oil goes up, so does the price of everything else. If the price of oil goes up enough, say hello to recession. Our dependence on fossil fuels is going to destroy us, but it won't be through climate change. You morons need to wake up and pledge loyalty to America instead of to Exxon/Mobil's profit margins and the politicians they have bought to do their bidding.
I think the quicker the earth depletes itself of fossil fuels the better off we are. There is no way the earth is endangered by fossil fuels because there isnt enough supply on earth to burn long enough to cause enough warming to create a problem.
BTW - what happened to the ozone layer hole that was going to kill us all by 1994 ? remember that "crisis" ?
As for what happened to that hole that was detected in the 80's, well, it got bigger until the nations of the world got together and did something about it - namely the Montreal Protocol.
Due to the Montreal Protocol (the treaty that was supposed to bankrupt American business by making us less competitive in the blobal market, remember that?) CFC usage was reduced and the ozone hole's growth has halted. There is even some encouraging data to suggest that the ozone layer is recovering.
In short, the problem did not just go away on its own. A problem was detected, something was done about it, and it got better before it turned really ugly.
Maybe we should do the same thing with global warming, eh, BarkingDog?
I really don't want my grandchildren or even their grandchildren to have to live underground to avoid getting cooked or irradiated. We just had a month of 100+ degree weather. That is a 5 degree average above the hottest month on record which was last year which was 2 degrees hotter than the previously hottest month which was 5 years ago etc etc...see a pattern?
The whole "human-caused global warming" thing is about taxes--and the removal of personal freedoms. It's a left-wing, UN-loving sorta thing from the *-go.[V][:(!][xx(]
Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!We have a winner here!!
Out of curiousity, I sent the author of the cited study an email asking about the accuracy of the story. Here is his reply....
Dear Mr. York - I have submitted a paper for peer-review, but I have not sought publicity for it. However, through those who were consulted during the drafting, a somewhat inaccurate account of it has leaked out.
My screen name came from a combination of the names of two men who I admire a lot. Sahagan was a Spanish medieval writer, and Carl Sagan was a much admired astronomer and scientist. From those two men I got Sahagan, and have used it for ten years or better.
Fact is, I was talking to Carl Sagan one time, and he had just finished a speech about weather here on earth and elsewhere. He made an observation that has stayed with me since....
You see, earth is unique among the solar system's planets, in that it has life (Mars may have life, or it may not. It certainly doesn't have the unbelievable diversity of life we find here on earth), while none of the other planets do. Venus is hot enough to melt lead, and Mars warm enough and with an atmospheric pressure such that that if you stood on the surface during the summer, your upper body might be pretty comfortable as to temperature, while the blood in your lower legs and feet would be boiling. The other planets don't even come close to supporting life, certainly any life we might be familiar with.
So what in fact, does earth have in common with the other planets? It's this, that the planet, its surface and climatic conditions is always, always, in flux. The earth's planetary climatic cycles are measured in periods of thousands of years, while our lifespans generally come to less than one hundred years. Record keeping has been done for such a short period of time, that, given the earth's unthinkably long climatic cycle, making global predictions based upon those records would be akin to predicting your future life based upon the observations of a single day.
Some days, everything is fine. You're healthy, happy and all is well with the world. On another day though, you may wake with a headache, you're disoriented, joints hurting, back throbbing with pain, your wife has left you again, and you wish you were dead.
So how will your future life be? Using the events and conditions of one day, no one can tell. Using even a hundred years of climatic records to predict the earth's future is a lose/lose situation. And if we are so arrogant as to suppose that we're going to short-circuit, or hasten upcoming planetary cycles of heat/drought and cold/ice ages, we've gone well past absurd and are fast approaching downright foolishness.
To then take these broad climatic forecasts, based upon totally insufficient data derived from a totally inadequate length of time, and use them to further a political agenda is disingenious at best, and dishonest at worst.
Comments
Posted this early today, but didn't get much response.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=261728
Just wait till everyone gets a few cold ones down.[:D]
Meteorologists can't even predict tomorrow's weather accurately. What do they know.
Captplaid,
Not much about the Global Warming situation is in the area of expertise of the common meteorologists. Meteorologists focus primarily on the study and prediction of short term weather patterns, not very long term variances in average Global temperature. The Global Warming situation is in the areas covered by Physicists of various disciplines, including those that have come to be known as Cosmologists. Meteorologists would be involved in the study of weather patterns produced by Global Warming, but wouldn't have much to do with the research into the causes, or solutions if there are any. There are what you may call "advanced meteorologists" that have moved into the Physics aspects of all the contributing factors of "weather" but they're not your everyday "weather man" on TV.
BTW, the meteorologists are pretty darn good at 24 hour weather predictions these days. They don't miss many calls here.[;)]
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Energy_and_Environment
"The journal Energy and Environment is a social science journal published by Multi-Science. The journal's editor is Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen, a reader in geography at the University of Hull in England and climate skeptic.
Energy and Environment is not carried in the ISI listing of peer-reviewed journals. Its peer review process has been widely criticised for allowing the publication of substandard papers [1][2].
[:)]
And quite frankly, I can't think of anything SMARTER than having our entire national economy completely and totally dependent on the price of one commodity. When the price of oil goes up, so does the price of everything else. If the price of oil goes up enough, say hello to recession. Our dependence on fossil fuels is going to destroy us, but it won't be through climate change. You morons need to wake up and pledge loyalty to America instead of to Exxon/Mobil's profit margins and the politicians they have bought to do their bidding.
BTW - what happened to the ozone layer hole that was going to kill us all by 1994 ? remember that "crisis" ?
Due to the Montreal Protocol (the treaty that was supposed to bankrupt American business by making us less competitive in the blobal market, remember that?) CFC usage was reduced and the ozone hole's growth has halted. There is even some encouraging data to suggest that the ozone layer is recovering.
In short, the problem did not just go away on its own. A problem was detected, something was done about it, and it got better before it turned really ugly.
Maybe we should do the same thing with global warming, eh, BarkingDog?
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/26may_ozone.htm
The whole "human-caused global warming" thing is about taxes--and the removal of personal freedoms. It's a left-wing, UN-loving sorta thing from the *-go.[V][:(!][xx(]
Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!We have a winner here!!
Dear Mr. York - I have submitted a paper for peer-review, but I have not sought publicity for it. However, through those who were consulted during the drafting, a somewhat inaccurate account of it has leaked out.
Sincerely yours
Klaus-Martin Schulte
Fact is, I was talking to Carl Sagan one time, and he had just finished a speech about weather here on earth and elsewhere. He made an observation that has stayed with me since....
You see, earth is unique among the solar system's planets, in that it has life (Mars may have life, or it may not. It certainly doesn't have the unbelievable diversity of life we find here on earth), while none of the other planets do. Venus is hot enough to melt lead, and Mars warm enough and with an atmospheric pressure such that that if you stood on the surface during the summer, your upper body might be pretty comfortable as to temperature, while the blood in your lower legs and feet would be boiling. The other planets don't even come close to supporting life, certainly any life we might be familiar with.
So what in fact, does earth have in common with the other planets? It's this, that the planet, its surface and climatic conditions is always, always, in flux. The earth's planetary climatic cycles are measured in periods of thousands of years, while our lifespans generally come to less than one hundred years. Record keeping has been done for such a short period of time, that, given the earth's unthinkably long climatic cycle, making global predictions based upon those records would be akin to predicting your future life based upon the observations of a single day.
Some days, everything is fine. You're healthy, happy and all is well with the world. On another day though, you may wake with a headache, you're disoriented, joints hurting, back throbbing with pain, your wife has left you again, and you wish you were dead.
So how will your future life be? Using the events and conditions of one day, no one can tell. Using even a hundred years of climatic records to predict the earth's future is a lose/lose situation. And if we are so arrogant as to suppose that we're going to short-circuit, or hasten upcoming planetary cycles of heat/drought and cold/ice ages, we've gone well past absurd and are fast approaching downright foolishness.
To then take these broad climatic forecasts, based upon totally insufficient data derived from a totally inadequate length of time, and use them to further a political agenda is disingenious at best, and dishonest at worst.
Sahagan