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Wounded Deer...

pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
edited February 2016 in General Discussion
....at my lease today....shot with a AR15 type rifle....Black ops stuff....can't find deer Coyotes having a fine supper...anybody else hunt deer with an AR15 rifle?...
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    montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 58,066 ******
    edited November -1
    you shoot it??
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    guns-n-painthorsesguns-n-painthorses Member Posts: 6,463 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I didn't even think it was legal to shoot a deer with a .22 cal bullet?
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    slumlord44slumlord44 Member Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Legal in some states, not legal in a lot of states. I am assuming legal in his state. Have lost deer hit hard with a 12 gauge slug and a 45 and 50 caliber muzzleloader. Hate it when that happens.
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    pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not me....a new member!...I think his is one of those that shoots a larger bullet,so as I don't own any AR stuff unless you say a Mini 14 is an Ar style rifle....6.5 ring a bell?...that's what some one said...he was up a tree in a climber...???
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    montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 58,066 ******
    edited November -1
    Shame he couldn't find it. Poor shot placement.
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    armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,483 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have shot and killed deer with the 5.56, 6x45, and 6.8 Spc so yes I've hunted pretty often with an AR 15. Hunted as well with an AR10.
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    searcher5searcher5 Member Posts: 13,511
    edited November -1
    Hope he made an effort to find it. I hate unnecessary suffering in anything. Myself, even though it's legal in Kansas, I don't believe in the 223 as a deer slayer, UNLESS you are extremely secure in your shot placement. I have never taken a deer with anything less that a 50 cal muzzle loader, 30-06, 0r a 303 brit. Just me. A whole lot just as suitable, but a 223 takes a real experienced hand, to make a clean kill on a deer.

    Man needs to take responsibility, well before, and after he pulls the trigger.

    Dan
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    Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Shooting any animal with a caliber at the extreme low end of capability is always a risk. It removes much in the 'margin of error' category. I have seen guys shoot elk with a .243, moose with a .270, and bison with a .30-06. Some have made a clean kill. Most have not.

    A caliber at least more in the mid-range of capability for the animal doesn't guarantee a clean kill, but it does increase the odds significantly. I think the animals deserve the better odds.
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    searcher5searcher5 Member Posts: 13,511
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
    Shooting any animal with a caliber at the extreme low end of capability is always a risk. It removes much in the 'margin of error' category. I have seen guys shoot elk with a .243, moose with a .270, and bison with a .30-06. Some have made a clean kill. Most have not.

    A caliber at least more in the mid-range of capability for the animal doesn't guarantee a clean kill, but it does increase the odds significantly. I think the animals deserve the better odds.


    Well said.
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    cercer Member Posts: 826 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    in Alabama it used to have to be a 243 or larger for Deer now as long as it is a centerfire round it's legal to deer hunt with it. a shotgun is 410 or larger and a handgun is 40 cal or lager. black powder is 45 cal or larger
    even when it was 243 I saw and heard of lots of lost deer.
    the rich lease most of the best hunting places and are turning the state into a 8 point or larger or trying to. the insurance companys want every deer killed no mater what size or sex.
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    mnrivrat48mnrivrat48 Member Posts: 1,711 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Minnesota changed our law a couple years back to allow .223 for deer.
    My hunting days are over now, but I would have never used a .22 center fire on deer. I know there are people out there that could be trusted to cleaning take a deer with one, but I also feel there are many who would shoot without proper concern to shot placement.

    My vote is that it is a bad idea.
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    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,261 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Illegal in Georgia.
    I have killed over a hundred deer. I have made two bad shots myself and left deer to suffer in the woods, so I am not going to get high and mighty.
    No doubt, the .223 can kill a deer, and if you make a good lung shot no whitetail can survive it, most would drop in their tracks. However, that tiny bullet is pushing it for being a good deer killer, whether legal or not. I have never hunted with a .223 and would never do so.
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    guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,187 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    .223 kills deer just fine. Put a hole in both lungs and the deer will die just as fast as it will with any other cartridge.

    If you are looking for a blood trail....well, you probably won't get much of one.

    Don't expect the same results from a 50gr VMAX that you will get from a 60gr Partition or a 65gr Sierra GameKing. You won't get it.
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    nemesisenforcernemesisenforcer Member Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
    Shooting any animal with a caliber at the extreme low end of capability is always a risk. It removes much in the 'margin of error' category. I have seen guys shoot elk with a .243, moose with a .270, and bison with a .30-06. Some have made a clean kill. Most have not.

    A caliber at least more in the mid-range of capability for the animal doesn't guarantee a clean kill, but it does increase the odds significantly. I think the animals deserve the better odds.


    thumbs up
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    bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have lost two deer. One shot with a bow, the other shot with a slug. I no longer hunt with slugs, preferring pistols or BP rifles instead.
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    Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by searcher5
    Hope he made an effort to find it. I hate unnecessary suffering in anything. Myself, even though it's legal in Kansas, I don't believe in the 223 as a deer slayer, UNLESS you are extremely secure in your shot placement. I have never taken a deer with anything less that a 50 cal muzzle loader, 30-06, 0r a 303 brit. Just me. A whole lot just as suitable, but a 223 takes a real experienced hand, to make a clean kill on a deer.

    Man needs to take responsibility, well before, and after he pulls the trigger.

    Dan


    Careful, Dan.

    This kind of talk can get you labelled.

    Don
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
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    buddybbuddyb Member Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have killed plenty of deer with a 223.Always used a super accurate Savage bolt gun but a good accurate AR should work just as well.I know everyone that has hunted any length of time has seen deer lost with all caliber rifles.You just need to shoot them where they need to be shot.
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    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,261 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Question for .223 advocates. If you were shooting a big buck, say a 250 pound eight pointer, and you messed your shot up a little and hit right in the shoulder, rather than behind the shoulder, will the little bullet go through and make the clean kill, or, would it blow up and not get into the lungs?
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    Smitty500magSmitty500mag Member Posts: 13,603 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pwillie
    ...he was up a tree...


    We don't have any tree deer in this part of the country. What do you use to tree them with, dogs? I'd hate to have one of those suckers jump out of a tree on top of me when I wasn't expecting it.
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    guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,187 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    Question for .223 advocates. If you were shooting a big buck, say a 250 pound eight pointer, and you messed your shot up a little and hit right in the shoulder, rather than behind the shoulder, will the little bullet go through and make the clean kill, or, would it blow up and not get into the lungs?


    With the correct bullet, it will kill it cleanly.

    If the hunter is using a bullet that blows up on a deer shoulder, in any caliber, he needs the rethink things.
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    MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 13,809 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All of the "little cartridges" are very susceptible to poor bullet placement. Regardless of anecdotal comments, BIGGER IS BETTER when it comes to misplaced bullets. I/we have shot 25-30 deer with the .223 and have lost some due to poor placement and/or inadequate blood trails. If given the opportunity to vote for a state minimum of 6mm/243 caliber, I'd vote twice.
    I shot two deer ( mature doe and button buck)with a .223 in 2015. Both bullets hit within 1-2" of intended placement. Both deer were in a wide open field over 200 yards across so followup was a non-issue(1 ran 50 yards and 1 ran 100 yards). Does this make the 223 a "do it all" deer hunting cartridge? Not in any way. In this case, I needed a couple of meat deer and these were in a perfect location and the everyday carry AR was in my hands. If I were actually going hunting with the intention of killing deer, I'd pick a more effective round.
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    RobOzRobOz Member Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Choose a good monolithic or bonded bullet and 223 Remington is a fine deer round. I prefer the TSX for lighter bullets.
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    pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    if I had my way, only 25 caliber and larger for white tails...platforms is anybodys preference....
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    pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
    quote:Originally posted by pwillie
    ...he was up a tree...


    We don't have any tree deer in this part of the country. What do you use to tree them with, dogs? I'd hate to have one of those suckers jump out of a tree on top of me when I wasn't expecting it.



    You always make a story out of a infraction of fact...good for you,now you are no longer competing with Obama...You are he!
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    guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,187 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pwillie
    if I had my way, only 25 caliber and larger for white tails...platforms is anybodys preference....


    Good thing this is America and we have choices, huh? [;)]

    Personally, I use a CZ550 in 6.5x55 for my deer hunting. I would go smaller....and I have, but there be 400+ pound black bears in the woods around here.
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    select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well it didn't work this time.
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    MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,649
    edited November -1
    223 kills deer just as well as anything IF the hunter does his job.

    Have seen many, many deer lost after poor hits with 12 gauge deer slugs.

    Have seen lots of deer run off after hits with mid caliber rifles using too heavy, thick jacketed bullets that don't expand on ribs or lungs.

    Don't blame the gun. Blame the operator either for his poor marksmanship or lack of knowledge in ammo selection.

    For those taking the superior moral attitude that "the deer deserve better", read above one more time.
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    pulsarncpulsarnc Member Posts: 6,272 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No personal experiance with the 223 in deer hunting .Cousin ,who was amuch better shot than i am tried it for a while .His opinion mirrors most .If placed correctly it will do the job ,otherwise it is a lost deer .Use enough gun to do the job .I suspect that it is a stunt for most to hunt with a 223 .
    cry Havoc and let slip  the dogs of war..... 
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    MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,649
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pulsarnc
    No personal experiance with the 223 in deer hunting .Cousin ,who was amuch better shot than i am tried it for a while .His opinion mirrors most .If placed correctly it will do the job ,otherwise it is a lost deer .Use enough gun to do the job .I suspect that it is a stunt for most to hunt with a 223 .



    No, actually the "stunt" is amateurs hunting deer with 300 Magnums that they flinch so bad they cannot hit vitals. Watch these yahoos try to sight in their new rifles with new scopes and super premium ammunition. It's a joke. Sure impresses all of his buddies, though.

    It's easy to OVERGUN for deer. It's also easy to UNDERSKILL.
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    Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In PA when gun season starts and the city sickers from the east showed up with thier super duper mega magnums we had wounded deer running all over the place. Using a super magnum to compensate for lousy hunting and shooting ability is extremely extremely common and happens everywhere.

    For a lot of years I hunted with a NEF single shot .223 and never once had a deer take more than 2 steps from a hit with it, it's all about ammo and placement. Using surplus military ammo for hunting is the biggest mistake made. I've also had deer double lung shot with a 30-06 run for well over 100 yards, but lung shot deer with a .223 with 55G Nosler Balistic Tips would fall over right there.

    I will never buy the argument that a .22 cal rifle is inadequate for deer, if it is inadequate I blame the person using it.

    Me personaly, I've hunted regular season and had the priveledge of hunting farm culls when I worked on PA dairy farms. To this day I have legally killed more deer with a .22LR than I have with a centerfire.
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    armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,483 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by Big Sky Redneck
    In PA when gun season starts and the city sickers from the east showed up with thier super duper mega magnums we had wounded deer running all over the place. Using a super magnum to compensate for lousy hunting and shooting ability is extremely extremely common and happens everywhere.

    For a lot of years I hunted with a NEF single shot .223 and never once had a deer take more than 2 steps from a hit with it, it's all about ammo and placement. Using surplus military ammo for hunting is the biggest mistake made. I've also had deer double lung shot with a 30-06 run for well over 100 yards, but lung shot deer with a .223 with 55G Nosler Balistic Tips would fall over right there.

    I will never buy the argument that a .22 cal rifle is inadequate for deer, if it is inadequate I blame the person using it.

    Me personaly, I've hunted regular season and had the priveledge of hunting farm culls when I worked on PA dairy farms. To this day I have legally killed more deer with a .22LR than I have with a centerfire.
    [/quote


    Its illegal in most states to hunt with any type of military FMJ ammo period.
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    Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That doesn't stop people, same with PA not allowing semi autos for deer but you would see an occaisional SKS or AK47 out for a stroll.
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    roswellnativeroswellnative Member Posts: 10,132 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    Illegal in Georgia.
    I have killed over a hundred deer. I have made two bad shots myself and left deer to suffer in the woods, so I am not going to get high and mighty.
    No doubt, the .223 can kill a deer, and if you make a good lung shot no whitetail can survive it, most would drop in their tracks. However, that tiny bullet is pushing it for being a good deer killer, whether legal or not. I have never hunted with a .223 and would never do so.


    I would not use it , but GA is any center fire of .22 or greater last I checked

    And I bet it was a 6.8 spc

    ros
    Although always described as a cowboy, Roswellnative generally acts as a righter of wrongs or bodyguard of some sort, where he excels thanks to his resourcefulness and incredible gun prowesses.
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    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,261 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hunted a lot in Georgia, quite a lot, but haven't hunted there in 15 years.
    .223 used to be illegal I haven't checked the regs lately.

    I said I have killed over a hundred deer, and most all of them were in Georgia. Mostly I used a 30-06. I usually went for the lung shot, I made that shot fifty times at least. On average a deer would run 110 yards when lung shot with the 30-06. Good blood trail, though.
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    guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,187 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    I hunted a lot in Georgia, quite a lot, but haven't hunted there in 15 years.
    .223 used to be illegal I haven't checked the regs lately.

    I said I have killed over a hundred deer, and most all of them were in Georgia. Mostly I used a 30-06. I usually went for the lung shot, I made that shot fifty times at least. On average a deer would run 110 yards when lung shot with the 30-06. Good blood trail, though.


    Really? 110 yards average? I am surprised!

    While I probably have not killed as many deer as you, my experience has been markedly different. I have never had a deer, except for one poorly placed shot with a 30-30, go over 50-60 yards after being shot.

    None of those shots were over 100 yards either. That may make a difference. This includes the three or four taken with the 22-250 and .223.
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    pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I started stalk hunting deer in the mid '70s...I started with a Sako 30-06 on the advice of a Fed Game warden friend who had hunted all over for deer ,Bear, Elk etc....Then I started going to Texas where the 7mag was king,which I switched to....Then,when I got a chance to hunt Senderos, I went to Winchester Laredo in 300 Win Mag...that worked for awhile...then rebarreled to Weatherby 300 mag....now that I primarily hunt in Bama, I like the 257 Weatherby for stalking down logging rds and long fields (500) yds shots...as I neck shoot,most go down where they are...I read Roy Weatherby's book on cartridges....the man has a plan with the 257 for white tail...other than a M16, I have never shot a new AR15...I d like my mini 14 for home defense etc...I want say how many deer I have killed,but I have quiet a few all over the office and in the house....went skull mts because of the room...born in the woods with my Dad and a 22 rifle,410 shotgun....Never liked hunting deer with dogs....too much standing around doing nothing...
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    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,261 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was always astonished at how far a deer would run with a hole in both lungs. I was shooting Silvertips and Remington Core Lokt, 180 gr.
    A .30 entrance wound and a .50 exit. Wouldn't expand at all unless you hit a rib going in. These were close range shots in the thick Ga. woods, average range 40 yards.

    Some of those shots I hit low and blew the heart up. Damn deer would go 80 yards with his heart blown to bits. Unreal.
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    pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
    I was always astonished at how far a deer would run with a hole in both lungs. I was shooting Silvertips and Remington Core Lokt, 180 gr.
    A .30 entrance wound and a .50 exit. Wouldn't expand at all unless you hit a rib going in. These were close range shots in the thick Ga. woods, average range 40 yards.

    Some of those shots I hit low and blew the heart up. Damn deer would go 80 yards with his heart blown to bits. Unreal.
    I had a ten point pass under a tree I was in, and shot him behind the front shoulder(only shot I had) he ran away over a hundred yds,into a swamp and on an island(small)...200 lb buck,with heart looking like jello....They are amazing..[;)]
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    OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,519 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I do not think it is legal in PA. I hunt with a 41 mag handgun in PA or my 30-30 or 308. Here in NJ, we can only shotgun hunt. It is not as easy as you would think. I have had some good shot placements with my 12 gauge, at close range, only to watch the deer run over 200 yards. I wish we could hunt with rifles here, like in PA. I no longer hunt NJ with a shotgun, but instead, hunt with my 50 cal muzzle loader, during shotgun week. It allows me further shots and cleaner kills. Oakie
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    Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Deer can (and do) run after they are brain dead, it's not until the muscles run out of oxygen (or crash into something) that they fall over.
    3 examples: Group of 3, all 3 made the zig at 75yd, 2 made the zag at 80yd and the 3rd was piled up 150yd further on. Another made a 75yd straight run before crashing into a rotted stump. Both had golf ball sized holes through their hearts. Another covered 250yd of knee deep snow while leaving a 10' wide blood trail before falling over.
    I was using a 30-06, launching 150gr NBT's at 3000fps, over open hay fields, at relaxed deer.
    If they don't drop at the shot, they'll cover some country before dropping
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