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Keltec products
hughbetcha
Member Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭
Forgive me if this issue has been beaten to death on this forum. I haven't posted in years.
My subject is Keltec firearms. For many years i have shot Keltec products from the small automatic handguns to the carbines and recently the KSG 12gauge pump. yesterday I was speaking with a local chief of police who is considering buying Keltec .40 carbines for his patrol vehicles.
My opinion is that Keltec makes some neat products that are fun to shoot and which show innovation in design and manufacturing. However I do not think any Keltec products are suitable for military or police issue.
Any thoughts on this subject?
My subject is Keltec firearms. For many years i have shot Keltec products from the small automatic handguns to the carbines and recently the KSG 12gauge pump. yesterday I was speaking with a local chief of police who is considering buying Keltec .40 carbines for his patrol vehicles.
My opinion is that Keltec makes some neat products that are fun to shoot and which show innovation in design and manufacturing. However I do not think any Keltec products are suitable for military or police issue.
Any thoughts on this subject?
Comments
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
A patrol rifle should be of a caliber that can defeat your run of the mill body armor. The North Hollywood bank robbery taught a hard lesson to law enforcement t about that.
Totally agree. The weapon/ammo combo should be selected with an intention to defeat body armor. These days, armor is readily available and anyone more sophisticated than a street level jacker, such as a terrorist, will probably plan his attack to include suitable armor.
As much as I hate to recommend AR's (not a fan), they honestly do seem to be one of the better options for a squad level carbine. Depending on the budget, perhaps SCAR-L, ACR, or similar for a rifle caliber, or a MP5 size for something smaller.
not everyone knows how inexpensive an ar can be had today
My own experience with the keltec 9mm carbine using Beretta Mags is that the weapon jams fairly often(about once every couple of magazines fired.) I worry about the long term reliability, especially if the weapon is to be fire a lot for training
Just because an item costs less (or more) than what some chair-bound bureaucrat thinks it should is no basis for acquisition, especially when lives may be at stake.
LE firearms should go "BANG" every time, regardless of the price.
That said, Hi-Point makes carbines in 9, .40, & .45; Beretta, Smiff, HK, Ruger, Kel-Tec make carbines, too. I recall a pump Remington in .223 that was touted as a carbine for cops.
ANY gun can be made to jam, especially one that doesn't look as "tacticool" as an AR with $4K worth of crap hanging off of it.
If you don't do your part; don't blame it on the brand name.
A patrol rifle should be of a caliber that can defeat your run of the mill body armor. The North Hollywood bank robbery taught a hard lesson to law enforcement t about that.
Yes Sir, I could carry an MP-5A2 select fire if I chose too, but I choose to carry a Bushmaster patrol rifle in 5.56 for that reason. Why would I carry a pistol caliber carbine that is not capable of defeating soft body armor?
I own a Kel Tec sub 2000 in 9mm. It is fun to plink with, and after replacing the trigger and trigger springs it is even better, but I would be concerned about longterm durability as well. Frankly they could build AR-15s for close to the same price as a Kel Tec sub 2000. now training ammo is a concern for budgeting, but if the purpose is to provide a long guns for the officers then he should be looking at rifle calibers, not pistol calibers.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
I don't understand why law enforcement aren't giving up AR-15's for AR-10's.
Too big and bulky for what Police need them for, however I would be interested in .300 blk for our use. Patrol officers are using them for moving through buildings and shots with in 50 yards, not as precision rifles. philosophy of use...there are quite a few rounds in 556/223 designed for LE use, not so many in .308. I would be more concerned about over penetration with .308 for our potential uses.
There are plenty of youtube videos that show what I am talking about.
Among the reasons I was given for the consideration of carry the carbines was the fact that they could be kept handy in the front of the vehicle unloaded and then brought into action quickly using the Glock .40 magazines the officer is already carrying.
My own experience with the keltec 9mm carbine using Beretta Mags is that the weapon jams fairly often(about once every couple of magazines fired.) I worry about the long term reliability, especially if the weapon is to be fire a lot for training
I have th 9mm glock config. It only has jammed using cheap happy sticks. Using the Pmag or Glock brand, no issues ever. The 9mm has outperformed my expectation. Makes me smile every time I pick it up.
With the red dot on a quick release, I have been able to knock down the silhouettes at 150 yards. That impressed me for a 9mm.
Among the reasons I was given for the consideration of carry the carbines was the fact that they could be kept handy in the front of the vehicle unloaded and then brought into action quickly using the Glock .40 magazines the officer is already carrying.
My own experience with the keltec 9mm carbine using Beretta Mags is that the weapon jams fairly often(about once every couple of magazines fired.) I worry about the long term reliability, especially if the weapon is to be fire a lot for training
Weapons of all kinds, whether lethal or non-lethal, should be secured in a patrol vehicle. If your buddy is concerned about them being readily accessible, he may want to look into buying mag-lock gun mounts. You can get a horizontal single or double gun mount that bolts to the cage above the driver's head. You can also get a single or double vertical mount that stands just to the right of your console on the passenger side. Engine running, then you just hit the release button. When the engine is off, it won't open unless you have a key or turn the car on. Keeps them secured from break-ins. YES, police cars get broken into. There are some bold individuals out there.
quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
Among the reasons I was given for the consideration of carry the carbines was the fact that they could be kept handy in the front of the vehicle unloaded and then brought into action quickly using the Glock .40 magazines the officer is already carrying.
My own experience with the keltec 9mm carbine using Beretta Mags is that the weapon jams fairly often(about once every couple of magazines fired.) I worry about the long term reliability, especially if the weapon is to be fire a lot for training
Weapons of all kinds, whether lethal or non-lethal, should be secured in a patrol vehicle. If your buddy is concerned about them being readily accessible, he may want to look into buying mag-lock gun mounts. You can get a horizontal single or double gun mount that bolts to the cage above the driver's head. You can also get a single or double vertical mount that stands just to the right of your console on the passenger side. Engine running, then you just hit the release button. When the engine is off, it won't open unless you have a key or turn the car on. Keeps them secured from break-ins. YES, police cars get broken into. There are some bold individuals out there.
quote:Originally posted by Wrangler
quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
Among the reasons I was given for the consideration of carry the carbines was the fact that they could be kept handy in the front of the vehicle unloaded and then brought into action quickly using the Glock .40 magazines the officer is already carrying.
My own experience with the keltec 9mm carbine using Beretta Mags is that the weapon jams fairly often(about once every couple of magazines fired.) I worry about the long term reliability, especially if the weapon is to be fire a lot for training
Weapons of all kinds, whether lethal or non-lethal, should be secured in a patrol vehicle. If your buddy is concerned about them being readily accessible, he may want to look into buying mag-lock gun mounts. You can get a horizontal single or double gun mount that bolts to the cage above the driver's head. You can also get a single or double vertical mount that stands just to the right of your console on the passenger side. Engine running, then you just hit the release button. When the engine is off, it won't open unless you have a key or turn the car on. Keeps them secured from break-ins. YES, police cars get broken into. There are some bold individuals out there.
Can I get a mount like that for my Ma Deuce?
Brad Steele
More than reliability, which I think is an issue with keltec, the biggest problem is the caliber.
40 years ago i showed up at my dad's house with my latest purchase a Universal M1 carbine. My dad gave me a lecture about having a rifle chambered for a pistol cartridge. He made some remark about such a weapon only being good for robbing banks, a reference to Patty Hearst and the SLA robbing the Hibernia Bank in San Francisco, which had occurred just the year before
PS. Seriously, glad to see you posting.
40 years ago i showed up at my dad's house with my latest purchase a Universal M1 carbine. My dad gave me a lecture about having a rifle chambered for a pistol cartridge. He made some remark about such a weapon only being good for robbing banks, a reference to Patty Hearst and the SLA robbing the Hibernia Bank in San Francisco, which had occurred just the year before
Good advice from your father.
If you use the CORRECT magazine, the jams stop. Use cheap aftermarket magazines, continue to jam.
I only have 4 Kel-Tec guns, and after function firing & breaking them in over 350-500 rounds, have had ZERO ftf, fte, or "jams" of any kind.
I even have 2 Grendels that run flawlessly after 20 years of shooting every brand, weight & style of 22 Magnum through them.
The Kel-Tec PMR30s I own are direct descendants of the Grendels, and were designed by the same guy. Their website has videos of a PMR doing full-auto; no stoppages there, either.
But the most ridiculous statement has to be the one denigrating the M1 Carbine. It was designed to be the intermediate firearm for soldiers not issued a RIFLE or 1911. It performs as it was intended, and is the preferred weapon for smaller indigenous personnel. That's why the Karen, Hmong, VC & other little people carry it. It's effective to 250 yds, is lightweight & accurate, and is much better than shooting the same distance with a .40, because it carries more HIT.
Shoot/buy/acquire whatever you want, but don't rag on less expensive guns simply because they're cheaper to buy.
Next thing ya know, "somebody's" gonna start whining about how a Taurus that was bought from a pawnshop can't keep all its' shots in a frisbee at 200 yards, so it must be junk.
Can I get a mount like that for my Ma Deuce?
If you've got the coin I am sure Pro-Gard will be happy to fab you up a mount. [:D]