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Showdown at the Gas Station
buschmaster
Member Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭
I went to get some chinese food and smokes. on the way back, I came to a stop sign.
dude in a truck, opposite me, goes. while he's going, I start going thru the intersection to turn left.
well, the car behind him basically didn't stop, just kept following after him. I didn't stop either, just went slow and tried to make it behind that car.
they must not have liked that idea too much. they slowed down either to piss me off or to watch what was happening. so I ended up going right behind their bumper. they stopped, not quite all the way thru the intersection, and started yelling. I kept going through the intersection and down the street.
looked in my rear view mirror. they got out of the car and were yelling at me. I continued down the street. they said something to each other and ran back to their car.
let me guess, they're going to chase me. so I took off. went through the neighborhood wondering where I should turn to dodge them, wondering where they are going to show up. that didn't take long, next thing I knew they were following behind me, with 1 car between us.
...and the passenger was riding outside on the window sill, pointing a gun at me.
he was close enough to have possibly hit me if he decided to shoot. he didn't. maybe he didn't think he was close enough.
I took off. turned into the next street. with all the traffic and that extra car between us, several more cars got between us. I wasn't going to get away, my truck was slow and their car was fast. I had to use traffic to my advantage. I decided to go to the next gas station and have them call the cops. hopefully they wouldn't pursue this into a public area.
I was wrong about that.
I pulled into the gas station right up to the door. as I was going in the door I saw them drive right past the gas station... and pull into the parking lot next door, on the other side of the bulding. I ran inside and yelled for them to call the cops because these dudes were chasing me through the neighborhood pointing a gun at me.
I know these guys. they are middle-eastern and usually have about 5 guys working there at any one time, to hang out I guess. they all piled outside to see what was going on.
so I went back to the truck, got out my gun, and kept it pointing down while watching the building next door. all the other customers at the gas station didn't seem to notice anything unusual. maybe it wasn't unusual in this neighborhood.
the bad guys came around the corners of the building and walked toward me. two from one corner, two from the other. the first pair continued walking while the second pair held back somewhat.
of the first two, one of them walked ahead. he was the one pointing a gun at me. I didn't observe a weapon on him at the time. he got about 5 yards away and I asked him if he came from the car that was chasing me. he said yes, and why did you almost hit my car. he was pissed off. said something about my gun, said he had a gun too, and pulled up his shirt to show it to me in his waistband.
I told him I don't want any trouble, holding my gun pointing down in the right hand, waving at him "no" with my left hand. he kept on saying (whatever it was). at that point one employee stood beside me, on my left, and was also telling them we don't want any trouble, waving his arms. the bad guy was talking about his gun, backed up to perhaps 10 yards, pulled it out of his waistband, said if we want to have a gunfight he has a 30-round clip. displayed it by holding the gun sideways.
it was a smaller pistol, with short grip and short muzzle, couldn't tell what it was. couldn't tell if it was .380 or 9mm/.40 (like a Glock 26/27) I don't know. but it had a large magazine that sure looked like 30 rounds.
so while me, and the gas station dude next to me, continued telling him we don't want trouble, he continued waving his gun around. he had done that long enough and I wasn't going to wait for him to point it at me. I whipped my gun up and snapped into a Weaver stance, and said "put your gun down."
now, all the guys from the gas station were from the middle east; it made me wonder how many times they had been through this crap where they came from. they were older men. I wondered how many times cool heads had prevailed, how many times it came to naught and people were left ventilated. I wondered if they had seen it and it only made them older and wiser. I knew they didn't want this going on in their parking lot, because I knew them. they didn't want trouble. iregardless of who did what, or who was at fault, it would bring shame to all those involved. they didn't want it. they only wanted peace. and one of them was by my side, not 5 feet away, facing down a gang banger with a 30-round clip.
I estimated the situation.
I had 14 rounds in my Glock 23. bad guy had 30 rounds. I thought the situation would be decided after 1/2 to 3/4 of my magazine was used up; and the odds were pretty good that at least one other had a gun, using up the rest for sure. I went with that. call it a 50/50 chance of survival.
but then I thought it was just as likely that I would have a protracted gunfight with the first dude and another one too, in which case I would run out of ammo before they did and die in a hail of bullets. and that's not counting the other two possibly had guns, in which case I realized I had nowhere near enough ammo. and the other two were closer to their car, what if they ran back to the car and got a rifle out of the trunk as soon as we started shooting at each other?
so, including the unknown possibilities, the odds were sorely worse than 50/50. could be certain death.
that took about 2 seconds.
he did not comply, but kept waving it around. I do believe I would have been justified in shooting him at that point. so far he had not pointed it AT me, but if he did I certainly would have had to shoot him, and I was positioned to do that. he put it back in his waistband when he decided to on his own.
looking in the background, the rest of them were in various parts of the parking lot, looking annoyed. none of them displayed guns but there's still no telling if any of them were armed too. the situation was extremely dangerous and volatile.
and there was something else I was thinking about.
EVERY single time I have had an encounter with the cops, they have always twisted it around to make it my fault. and every time that I have checked the police report afterward, they have always lied on it. I have said before, that if for example, someone cussed me out and I punched him, I would get in trouble for punching him; if I cussed someone out and he punched me, it would be my fault for cussing him out. it's always my fault.
there are actual examples, such as when I defended my girlfriend from her certified drug-using, certified suicidal, 6'1" 230 lb ex-boyfriend who was, no kidding, fresh out of the mental hospital and driving around with a bong in his car, who chased us down and attacked her before attacking me, which resulted in a pool of blood in the street outisde her house; well it was his blood, and the police tried to nail me with everything they got, and told me to stay out of town or they would find an excuse to put me in jail- while they gave him a slap on the wrist.
or the time I was walking my dog through the alley (like I did every week) and someone told me he was going to shoot me and my dog, because his dog barked at my dog (???) and the cops accused me of trying to burglarize houses, almost took me to jail, and told me to stay out of their suburb; ad nauseum. and every stupid little other thing not worth mentioning. it's always my fault with the police.
I was wondering how the cops would twist it around this time to make it my fault. and if I had to shoot someone.... ho boy. this could be bad.
I would find out later.
anyways...
I pointed my gun down. the employee stood there and kept telling them we don't want any trouble and waving them off. the first two started walking/backing away, and I walked from the side of my truck around to the front. at least the engine block was between me and the first pair. I kept an eye on them.
they went maybe 10 feet when the first thug became irate and started yelling "you still looking at me?!" kept yelling that but wouldn't quite look at me. otherwise he would be forced into doing something about it.
the gas station dude repeated that we don't want trouble, but now they looked like they were going to start it all over again. I started walking toward the street. they all started yelling again, but this time a bunch of the customers at the gas station, who had been pumping gas, going in and out of the store, etc. yelled back at them. they must have had guns too and were getting sick of their crap. the thugs backed off.
THE POLICE
at that point me and the employees saw a police SUV pull up to the stoplight in front of the store. we all started walking toward it shouting to get their attention. the employees only went so far, but I kept going right up to the curb nearest the vehicle. (they were in the far lane) I kept shouting and waving, holding my gun pointed down, and as soon as I got their attention motioned vigorously with my left arm toward the thugs, shouting that they were chasing me with a gun. kept pointing over there. they told me to drop my weapon. I complied, put my hands in the air and stepped away from the gun. they got out (white male cop and white female cop) and, while freaking out about me walking up to them with a gun in my hand, told me to put my hands in the air and sit on the ground. I did that. looked over and saw the bad guys drive out from behind the building, go down the street and turn left at the next stoplight. I motioned over there, repeated that they were chasing me with a gun, and there they go. they weren't interested in that at all. they wanted me to tell them what's going on, and still freaking out about someone walking up to them with a gun, cussing me out.
we moved off the street and they had me sit on the curb. they wanted me to tell them again. told them, and the male cop accused me of being on drugs, being drunk, and this must have been a drug deal gone bad. then he had us go over to my truck. on the way there, one employee comes over, cop asks him what happened, and what he was saying sort of sounded like it was my fault because I pulled a gun on them first. cop said as much to me. told them that's not what happened. he said "you're full of s---" (he would say that many times), and your truck is getting towed and we're taking away your gun. he put the handcuffs on me and put me in the back seat of the SUV.
they talked with the employees some more, then sat in the SUV and were both yelling screaming and cussing at me. the female cop was hysterical. I thought I might get punched by the male cop. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. female cop didn't care about anything else except that I "could have walked up and shot them both", because that has happened a few times around town. told her I wouldn't do that. male cop told me when I walked up to the SUV he should have put a bullet in my head, pointing at my forehead menacingly. told them what was I supposed to do, leave my gun there, 40 feet away from a gunfight??? they didn't care about that at all. continued yelling and screaming.
we went over again what happened. male cop said why would a reasonable person pull out a gun on you over nothing. tried telling him that they weren't reasonable, they already chased me through the neighborhood pointing a gun at me before I got here, etc. but he didn't want to hear that either. told me I was "full of s---" and it must have been a drug deal gone bad. told him several times I don't do drugs and I have never seen those guys before.
they got out, walked around the SUV and opened the door to get access to me. continued accusing me of being drunk or on drugs. told them I don't do drugs and I don't drink. female cop said she can arrest me at this moment for several offenses, including "UUWI" (whatever that was) and brandishing a gun at them. they said I was pointing it at them. told them no I didn't, and invited them to do a breathalyzer test. they both shined their flashlights IN my eyes, off and on, and said I was on drugs because my pupils gave no response. female cop had me follow her finger with my eyes, then held it still, high up. my eyes did not waver if that's what they were looking for. so she said my pupils didn't respond to anything, I must be on drugs. male cop said close my eyes for 20 seconds. I thought I might get punched, so I was flinching. male cop snickered that my eyes were squirmimg. when he told me to open them, he shined a flashlight into them. said they should have been wide open after being in the dark, so I must be on drugs.
ESCORTED HOME
the male cop asked where I live. he wrote down my address. said drive home and we will follow you. I got into my truck in front of the the gas station dudes, looking at me like, was I on drugs? had I committed a crime? or were they concerned and relieved that I had not been shot? I don't know what they were thinking, good or bad. they were thinking something, because they had weird looks on their faces.
when we got to my house, the cops made a point to say they had to give me back my gun because I have a right to have a gun. they had me open the door. had me walk inside. said "you're through for the day, don't come back outside". as I went up the steps, the female cop set the gun, magazine, and previously chambered bullet on the steps inside. she left. male cop repeated that I was on drugs, and while I had a right to have a gun I should take some classes on how to conduct yourself with a gun regarding other people. told him that that gun most liklely saved my life today. he reiterated that I'm on drugs, said "that's a fact" because anybody's pupils would react to light. told me again that I was "full of s---". said since you don't know these people, can you at least pick one out of a police lineup? told him no. said we don't have anything to go on, will review video from the gas station. then they left.
they did not give me a complaint number, report number, incident number or anything of the sort.
the next day I called the police station. they had no record of the police being summoned to that address and had no complaint/report/incident number to give me. as far as they know it didn't happen.
*********************************
AFTER THOUGHTS
everyone I told about this, said they would have shot him. one woman said she would have shot him in the kneecap so he never forgets it. you know what, none of them considered the other 3 guys who probably had guns too. nobody thought about the tactical aspect. all they say is "I would have shot him! heh"
the bad guys made a tactical error, and I fumbled it. I didn't realize that I could have shot the dude with the gun, and ran up and took it, giving me the ammo capacity to fight the others even if they all had guns. the next time someone who has already proven they want to shoot me, walks up and announces his ammo capacity while displaying his gun for inspection, I think I better shoot him before he stops talking. then take his gun and see what his buddies are going to do about that.
if I wouldn't have had a gun on me, I'm sure I would be dead right now. I'm sure it was his intention to walk up and shoot me dead, but when he got closer he noticed the gun I was holding at my side.
if I had a pocket pistol, such as an LCP, I'm sure I would have been toast. the Glock 23 was a credible threat, to 1) keep him from shooting first, and 2) keep them all from pulling their guns. they know they would have won if all I had was a little pocket pistol. I'm swearing off those little pocket guns, they are no match for any real sidearm and I just saw why. if that's all you have for protection it can get you killed going up against someone with a real gun, let alone multiple assailants with any sort of guns. just forget it. it's protection against thugs who don't have guns, or backup when your real gun jams, or to keep in your pocket for a quick draw before you whip out your real gun. I don't care how big of a bulge a sidearm makes when concealed, you need one. don't settle for less or you're just fooling yourself, right into the grave, and it's going to hurt.
1 magazine is not enough. 3 at bare minumum if you want to prevail. nowadays everyone can have high capacity, and thugs intent on pulling some crap know that, they will have high capacity, like this one with the 30-round magazine. anyone can carry spare mags including the bad guys and they aren't stupid. you have to do better. I would say at least 4 mags or more. apply the first one liberally, obama voters should like that.
when I had the gun pointed at him, oh yes I could have shot him first if he even flinched that gun in my direction. my aim was like a laser and my reflexes are like a cat. I checked it out after the incident; I paced off how far away he was, test pointed my gun just like I did before, and if he had eyeballs in his chest they would have been staring straight down the barrel of a .40 at 10 yards. but you know what? I still made a tactical error. the plan was to shoot him once and go from there. later I realized that's not good enough, you have to keep shooting until he is no longer a threat. yep I would have shot him once, and he still could have shot me anyways.
in this particular situation, if that happened, I would be on the ground, and his buddy would have ran over, picked up the 30-rounder and finished me off.
also when I had him covered, I had my finger "on" the trigger and that's it. barely pressing down that Glock Safety, because I suppose I was being safe. (go figure) I was consciously aware that I might jerk the trigger and miss. so I kept it in my head to pull straight back. it would have been better to pre-stack the trigger to 1) reduce trigger jerk, and 2) improve reaction time.
if you are driving around, keep your gun in a holster and your spare mags on your person, so when you exit your vehicle you have them on you, instead of leaving them all in the glove box. have you thought of that?
you don't think this is going to happen to you? I didn't either. I would have never guessed. I would have never guessed even 1 minute before I met those knuckleheads. ...and then it happened and I'm lucky to be alive, and so are all 4 of them depending on what they did. it happens to other people, it can happen to you, it can happen to anybody. don't let anybody tell you you're being paranoid or weird because you carry a gun and a bunch of spare magazines. this sort of bullcrap can happen and it does happen.
dude in a truck, opposite me, goes. while he's going, I start going thru the intersection to turn left.
well, the car behind him basically didn't stop, just kept following after him. I didn't stop either, just went slow and tried to make it behind that car.
they must not have liked that idea too much. they slowed down either to piss me off or to watch what was happening. so I ended up going right behind their bumper. they stopped, not quite all the way thru the intersection, and started yelling. I kept going through the intersection and down the street.
looked in my rear view mirror. they got out of the car and were yelling at me. I continued down the street. they said something to each other and ran back to their car.
let me guess, they're going to chase me. so I took off. went through the neighborhood wondering where I should turn to dodge them, wondering where they are going to show up. that didn't take long, next thing I knew they were following behind me, with 1 car between us.
...and the passenger was riding outside on the window sill, pointing a gun at me.
he was close enough to have possibly hit me if he decided to shoot. he didn't. maybe he didn't think he was close enough.
I took off. turned into the next street. with all the traffic and that extra car between us, several more cars got between us. I wasn't going to get away, my truck was slow and their car was fast. I had to use traffic to my advantage. I decided to go to the next gas station and have them call the cops. hopefully they wouldn't pursue this into a public area.
I was wrong about that.
I pulled into the gas station right up to the door. as I was going in the door I saw them drive right past the gas station... and pull into the parking lot next door, on the other side of the bulding. I ran inside and yelled for them to call the cops because these dudes were chasing me through the neighborhood pointing a gun at me.
I know these guys. they are middle-eastern and usually have about 5 guys working there at any one time, to hang out I guess. they all piled outside to see what was going on.
so I went back to the truck, got out my gun, and kept it pointing down while watching the building next door. all the other customers at the gas station didn't seem to notice anything unusual. maybe it wasn't unusual in this neighborhood.
the bad guys came around the corners of the building and walked toward me. two from one corner, two from the other. the first pair continued walking while the second pair held back somewhat.
of the first two, one of them walked ahead. he was the one pointing a gun at me. I didn't observe a weapon on him at the time. he got about 5 yards away and I asked him if he came from the car that was chasing me. he said yes, and why did you almost hit my car. he was pissed off. said something about my gun, said he had a gun too, and pulled up his shirt to show it to me in his waistband.
I told him I don't want any trouble, holding my gun pointing down in the right hand, waving at him "no" with my left hand. he kept on saying (whatever it was). at that point one employee stood beside me, on my left, and was also telling them we don't want any trouble, waving his arms. the bad guy was talking about his gun, backed up to perhaps 10 yards, pulled it out of his waistband, said if we want to have a gunfight he has a 30-round clip. displayed it by holding the gun sideways.
it was a smaller pistol, with short grip and short muzzle, couldn't tell what it was. couldn't tell if it was .380 or 9mm/.40 (like a Glock 26/27) I don't know. but it had a large magazine that sure looked like 30 rounds.
so while me, and the gas station dude next to me, continued telling him we don't want trouble, he continued waving his gun around. he had done that long enough and I wasn't going to wait for him to point it at me. I whipped my gun up and snapped into a Weaver stance, and said "put your gun down."
now, all the guys from the gas station were from the middle east; it made me wonder how many times they had been through this crap where they came from. they were older men. I wondered how many times cool heads had prevailed, how many times it came to naught and people were left ventilated. I wondered if they had seen it and it only made them older and wiser. I knew they didn't want this going on in their parking lot, because I knew them. they didn't want trouble. iregardless of who did what, or who was at fault, it would bring shame to all those involved. they didn't want it. they only wanted peace. and one of them was by my side, not 5 feet away, facing down a gang banger with a 30-round clip.
I estimated the situation.
I had 14 rounds in my Glock 23. bad guy had 30 rounds. I thought the situation would be decided after 1/2 to 3/4 of my magazine was used up; and the odds were pretty good that at least one other had a gun, using up the rest for sure. I went with that. call it a 50/50 chance of survival.
but then I thought it was just as likely that I would have a protracted gunfight with the first dude and another one too, in which case I would run out of ammo before they did and die in a hail of bullets. and that's not counting the other two possibly had guns, in which case I realized I had nowhere near enough ammo. and the other two were closer to their car, what if they ran back to the car and got a rifle out of the trunk as soon as we started shooting at each other?
so, including the unknown possibilities, the odds were sorely worse than 50/50. could be certain death.
that took about 2 seconds.
he did not comply, but kept waving it around. I do believe I would have been justified in shooting him at that point. so far he had not pointed it AT me, but if he did I certainly would have had to shoot him, and I was positioned to do that. he put it back in his waistband when he decided to on his own.
looking in the background, the rest of them were in various parts of the parking lot, looking annoyed. none of them displayed guns but there's still no telling if any of them were armed too. the situation was extremely dangerous and volatile.
and there was something else I was thinking about.
EVERY single time I have had an encounter with the cops, they have always twisted it around to make it my fault. and every time that I have checked the police report afterward, they have always lied on it. I have said before, that if for example, someone cussed me out and I punched him, I would get in trouble for punching him; if I cussed someone out and he punched me, it would be my fault for cussing him out. it's always my fault.
there are actual examples, such as when I defended my girlfriend from her certified drug-using, certified suicidal, 6'1" 230 lb ex-boyfriend who was, no kidding, fresh out of the mental hospital and driving around with a bong in his car, who chased us down and attacked her before attacking me, which resulted in a pool of blood in the street outisde her house; well it was his blood, and the police tried to nail me with everything they got, and told me to stay out of town or they would find an excuse to put me in jail- while they gave him a slap on the wrist.
or the time I was walking my dog through the alley (like I did every week) and someone told me he was going to shoot me and my dog, because his dog barked at my dog (???) and the cops accused me of trying to burglarize houses, almost took me to jail, and told me to stay out of their suburb; ad nauseum. and every stupid little other thing not worth mentioning. it's always my fault with the police.
I was wondering how the cops would twist it around this time to make it my fault. and if I had to shoot someone.... ho boy. this could be bad.
I would find out later.
anyways...
I pointed my gun down. the employee stood there and kept telling them we don't want any trouble and waving them off. the first two started walking/backing away, and I walked from the side of my truck around to the front. at least the engine block was between me and the first pair. I kept an eye on them.
they went maybe 10 feet when the first thug became irate and started yelling "you still looking at me?!" kept yelling that but wouldn't quite look at me. otherwise he would be forced into doing something about it.
the gas station dude repeated that we don't want trouble, but now they looked like they were going to start it all over again. I started walking toward the street. they all started yelling again, but this time a bunch of the customers at the gas station, who had been pumping gas, going in and out of the store, etc. yelled back at them. they must have had guns too and were getting sick of their crap. the thugs backed off.
THE POLICE
at that point me and the employees saw a police SUV pull up to the stoplight in front of the store. we all started walking toward it shouting to get their attention. the employees only went so far, but I kept going right up to the curb nearest the vehicle. (they were in the far lane) I kept shouting and waving, holding my gun pointed down, and as soon as I got their attention motioned vigorously with my left arm toward the thugs, shouting that they were chasing me with a gun. kept pointing over there. they told me to drop my weapon. I complied, put my hands in the air and stepped away from the gun. they got out (white male cop and white female cop) and, while freaking out about me walking up to them with a gun in my hand, told me to put my hands in the air and sit on the ground. I did that. looked over and saw the bad guys drive out from behind the building, go down the street and turn left at the next stoplight. I motioned over there, repeated that they were chasing me with a gun, and there they go. they weren't interested in that at all. they wanted me to tell them what's going on, and still freaking out about someone walking up to them with a gun, cussing me out.
we moved off the street and they had me sit on the curb. they wanted me to tell them again. told them, and the male cop accused me of being on drugs, being drunk, and this must have been a drug deal gone bad. then he had us go over to my truck. on the way there, one employee comes over, cop asks him what happened, and what he was saying sort of sounded like it was my fault because I pulled a gun on them first. cop said as much to me. told them that's not what happened. he said "you're full of s---" (he would say that many times), and your truck is getting towed and we're taking away your gun. he put the handcuffs on me and put me in the back seat of the SUV.
they talked with the employees some more, then sat in the SUV and were both yelling screaming and cussing at me. the female cop was hysterical. I thought I might get punched by the male cop. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. female cop didn't care about anything else except that I "could have walked up and shot them both", because that has happened a few times around town. told her I wouldn't do that. male cop told me when I walked up to the SUV he should have put a bullet in my head, pointing at my forehead menacingly. told them what was I supposed to do, leave my gun there, 40 feet away from a gunfight??? they didn't care about that at all. continued yelling and screaming.
we went over again what happened. male cop said why would a reasonable person pull out a gun on you over nothing. tried telling him that they weren't reasonable, they already chased me through the neighborhood pointing a gun at me before I got here, etc. but he didn't want to hear that either. told me I was "full of s---" and it must have been a drug deal gone bad. told him several times I don't do drugs and I have never seen those guys before.
they got out, walked around the SUV and opened the door to get access to me. continued accusing me of being drunk or on drugs. told them I don't do drugs and I don't drink. female cop said she can arrest me at this moment for several offenses, including "UUWI" (whatever that was) and brandishing a gun at them. they said I was pointing it at them. told them no I didn't, and invited them to do a breathalyzer test. they both shined their flashlights IN my eyes, off and on, and said I was on drugs because my pupils gave no response. female cop had me follow her finger with my eyes, then held it still, high up. my eyes did not waver if that's what they were looking for. so she said my pupils didn't respond to anything, I must be on drugs. male cop said close my eyes for 20 seconds. I thought I might get punched, so I was flinching. male cop snickered that my eyes were squirmimg. when he told me to open them, he shined a flashlight into them. said they should have been wide open after being in the dark, so I must be on drugs.
ESCORTED HOME
the male cop asked where I live. he wrote down my address. said drive home and we will follow you. I got into my truck in front of the the gas station dudes, looking at me like, was I on drugs? had I committed a crime? or were they concerned and relieved that I had not been shot? I don't know what they were thinking, good or bad. they were thinking something, because they had weird looks on their faces.
when we got to my house, the cops made a point to say they had to give me back my gun because I have a right to have a gun. they had me open the door. had me walk inside. said "you're through for the day, don't come back outside". as I went up the steps, the female cop set the gun, magazine, and previously chambered bullet on the steps inside. she left. male cop repeated that I was on drugs, and while I had a right to have a gun I should take some classes on how to conduct yourself with a gun regarding other people. told him that that gun most liklely saved my life today. he reiterated that I'm on drugs, said "that's a fact" because anybody's pupils would react to light. told me again that I was "full of s---". said since you don't know these people, can you at least pick one out of a police lineup? told him no. said we don't have anything to go on, will review video from the gas station. then they left.
they did not give me a complaint number, report number, incident number or anything of the sort.
the next day I called the police station. they had no record of the police being summoned to that address and had no complaint/report/incident number to give me. as far as they know it didn't happen.
*********************************
AFTER THOUGHTS
everyone I told about this, said they would have shot him. one woman said she would have shot him in the kneecap so he never forgets it. you know what, none of them considered the other 3 guys who probably had guns too. nobody thought about the tactical aspect. all they say is "I would have shot him! heh"
the bad guys made a tactical error, and I fumbled it. I didn't realize that I could have shot the dude with the gun, and ran up and took it, giving me the ammo capacity to fight the others even if they all had guns. the next time someone who has already proven they want to shoot me, walks up and announces his ammo capacity while displaying his gun for inspection, I think I better shoot him before he stops talking. then take his gun and see what his buddies are going to do about that.
if I wouldn't have had a gun on me, I'm sure I would be dead right now. I'm sure it was his intention to walk up and shoot me dead, but when he got closer he noticed the gun I was holding at my side.
if I had a pocket pistol, such as an LCP, I'm sure I would have been toast. the Glock 23 was a credible threat, to 1) keep him from shooting first, and 2) keep them all from pulling their guns. they know they would have won if all I had was a little pocket pistol. I'm swearing off those little pocket guns, they are no match for any real sidearm and I just saw why. if that's all you have for protection it can get you killed going up against someone with a real gun, let alone multiple assailants with any sort of guns. just forget it. it's protection against thugs who don't have guns, or backup when your real gun jams, or to keep in your pocket for a quick draw before you whip out your real gun. I don't care how big of a bulge a sidearm makes when concealed, you need one. don't settle for less or you're just fooling yourself, right into the grave, and it's going to hurt.
1 magazine is not enough. 3 at bare minumum if you want to prevail. nowadays everyone can have high capacity, and thugs intent on pulling some crap know that, they will have high capacity, like this one with the 30-round magazine. anyone can carry spare mags including the bad guys and they aren't stupid. you have to do better. I would say at least 4 mags or more. apply the first one liberally, obama voters should like that.
when I had the gun pointed at him, oh yes I could have shot him first if he even flinched that gun in my direction. my aim was like a laser and my reflexes are like a cat. I checked it out after the incident; I paced off how far away he was, test pointed my gun just like I did before, and if he had eyeballs in his chest they would have been staring straight down the barrel of a .40 at 10 yards. but you know what? I still made a tactical error. the plan was to shoot him once and go from there. later I realized that's not good enough, you have to keep shooting until he is no longer a threat. yep I would have shot him once, and he still could have shot me anyways.
in this particular situation, if that happened, I would be on the ground, and his buddy would have ran over, picked up the 30-rounder and finished me off.
also when I had him covered, I had my finger "on" the trigger and that's it. barely pressing down that Glock Safety, because I suppose I was being safe. (go figure) I was consciously aware that I might jerk the trigger and miss. so I kept it in my head to pull straight back. it would have been better to pre-stack the trigger to 1) reduce trigger jerk, and 2) improve reaction time.
if you are driving around, keep your gun in a holster and your spare mags on your person, so when you exit your vehicle you have them on you, instead of leaving them all in the glove box. have you thought of that?
you don't think this is going to happen to you? I didn't either. I would have never guessed. I would have never guessed even 1 minute before I met those knuckleheads. ...and then it happened and I'm lucky to be alive, and so are all 4 of them depending on what they did. it happens to other people, it can happen to you, it can happen to anybody. don't let anybody tell you you're being paranoid or weird because you carry a gun and a bunch of spare magazines. this sort of bullcrap can happen and it does happen.
Comments
Next time Carry Your Bushmaster
In, so I can find it easy!
Glad You didn't get perforated, Buschie!
bill drill is your friend , at least Mozambique that would have given you rounds for 3 buddies with 2 to spare, i doesnt matter if he had 100 rounds if he is dead
but according to the forum 1 shot and the rest would have ran away
Cigarettes are bad for you,,,
So is Chinee food evidently. [:D]
Glad Your OK
Woody
Are you sure you haven't posted this before? Or is this just how you roll?
Shootout or showdown?
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=669574
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
eh, working working going all over and getting nowhere. thought I'd give GB a rest for a while. might tell yall about the shootout tomorrow if I'm bored.
This sure sounded familiar and I got a sense of Deja Vu while reading this. Reread the post and realized this didn't happen today.
Are you sure you haven't posted this before? Or is this just how you roll?
Shootout or showdown?
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=669574
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
eh, working working going all over and getting nowhere. thought I'd give GB a rest for a while. might tell yall about the shootout tomorrow if I'm bored.
Looks like the ending got a rewrite.
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by iceracerx
This sure sounded familiar and I got a sense of Deja Vu while reading this. Reread the post and realized this didn't happen today.
Are you sure you haven't posted this before? Or is this just how you roll?
Shootout or showdown?
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=669574
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
eh, working working going all over and getting nowhere. thought I'd give GB a rest for a while. might tell yall about the shootout tomorrow if I'm bored.
Looks like the ending got a rewrite.
yep... [B)]
So Did Your Chinese Get Cold?
very observant! yes it did.
Next time Carry Your Bushmaster
that would have helped a lot!
Cigarettes are bad for you,,,
fun fact: a cigarette is .32 caliber
Glad you are O.K.,and it didn't end very ugly. The cops were out of line in my opinion and lost their cool/professionalism very early.
when they were telling me I was on drugs, I forgot the joke about "your eyes look glazed! have you been eating donuts?" always wanted to do that to a cop. dammit
This sure sounded familiar and I got a sense of Deja Vu while reading this. Reread the post and realized this didn't happen today.
Are you sure you haven't posted this before? Or is this just how you roll?
Shootout or showdown?
that was what I was talking about. shootout. showdown. eh
St.Louis?? What street??
st louis. 3d District.
St.Louis?? What street??
Benton Park, Benton Park West, Compton Heights, Fox Park, Gravois Park, Kosciusko, McKinley Heights, Shaw, Soulard, Tower Grove East, Tower Grove Park, Tower Grove South and portions of Marine Villa and Southwest Garden.
that area [:D]
quote:Originally posted by montanajoe
St.Louis?? What street??
Benton Park, Benton Park West, Compton Heights, Fox Park, Gravois Park, Kosciusko, McKinley Heights, Shaw, Soulard, Tower Grove East, Tower Grove Park, Tower Grove South and portions of Marine Villa and Southwest Garden.
that area [:D]
dammm,that area was even bad when I grew up there 60's-80
"Well, that one in the center: he had a flap holster and he was in no itchin' hurry. And the one second from the left: he had scared eyes, he wasn't gonna do nothin'. But that one on the far left: he had crazy eyes. Figured him to make the first move."
the crime is in these neighborhoods only because that's where thugs have to live. poor neighborhoods. if money wasn't the object the crime would be everwhere; it's not the people, it's that poverty is where the criminals are at.
these yoyo cops obviously let the bangers go because they were pissed off at me for walking up to their vehicle with a gun in my hand. and you know what? I looked in the news, and it seems there are people found shot dead in their car (or alley, etc) every week. by who? thugs like these.
there was an owner of a bar shot dead not too long ago. just driving down the interstate. he didn't have anything to do with bangers, thugs, none of that. his family and friends put up a reward to find the perp, up to $80,000 now. they still don't know who did it.
do you think it might be boneheads like these ones who wanted to shoot me in full view of everyone at the gas station, because they ran a stop sign and I went behind their car? what else have they already done? aren't they going to shoot someone in the future? yet the cops let them get away, wouldn't even look at their fleeing car.
if the police don't do anything about busting criminals, and the judges don't keep them behind bars for a good long while, they are partly responsible for crime for letting it happen. and that means people getting shot.
However,I also feel that once they got you secure(gun down,hands up),they should of done same with the others and sort things out from there.
Why they chose not to,I don't know.
As you know the Law is a little jumpy after all the Police shootings.
The Police have you, to late to go after them. Main thing is you are cut loose without too much drama. They are under a lot of pressure and are trying to provoke a response from you to see if you are stable. After trying to piss you off maybe they went looking for the Richard Craniums...
Not to say that can not happen in a rural area, but the odds are greatly reduced.
I have lived in some pretty rough areas in the past, and have had a few encounters as well.
I'm glad you kept your cool. Shooting the guy, unless absolutely necessary would have ended very badly for you. (In the Courts.)
I'm glad you are okay.
Showdown at the O.K. Corral sounds so much better than gas station.
didn't have a split rail fence and nobody got lit up. or I prolly woulda called it that.
I wonder if I would have got in trouble if I took the first guy hostage and told his buddies to back off or he gets it. think that's legal?
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
Showdown at the O.K. Corral sounds so much better than gas station.
didn't have a split rail fence and nobody got lit up. or I prolly woulda called it that.
I wonder if I would have got in trouble if I took the first guy hostage and told his buddies to back off or he gets it. think that's legal?
no not legal
but he should have been DRT the moment he showed his gun
i know thats easier armchared than being there with a million things a second going through your mind
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
At first I thought I was reading the first chapter of some want-to-be writers 1st. book [:D]
+100
Showdown at the O.K. Corral sounds so much better than gas station.
That's funny as hell![:D][;)][:)]