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how would you feel if you sold a gun
1911a1-fan
Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
To someone unknowing to you, who purchased it with the intent to murder ?
One person, murder/suicide, 3 children, whomever
One person, murder/suicide, 3 children, whomever
Comments
To someone unknowing to you, who purchased it with the intent to murder ?
One person, murder/suicide, 3 children, whomever
Well, Id be thinking about the bs im going to have to put up with when talking to the LEOs.
I would probably pause and reflect to see if I could have done anything different- someone intent on murder will find a way to get it done regardless of who sells them the tool or what the tool is.
How would you feel if you sold a car and the new owner mowed down a bunch of kids in a crosswalk?
Why would someone buy a car to commit murder, when they could test drive it for free, you dont let someone test own a gun you have for sale
Apples and oranges
I myself believe everygun I have is a great responsibility, I store them safely, and keep records, I have every recipt since 1989, wether it be a gun I purchased or sold
I have never sold a gun to a complete stranger, I have enough friends I never felt the need to do so, but I have seen some spooky people in my lifetime that I would not feel comfortable with selling a firearm
Well I guess its my fault for not being clear, I was reffering to individual ftf sale
Unknowing?
Well I guess I wouldn't feel much of anything if I was unknowing. Cause I wouldn't have known. Kind of like the gas station attendant who sells diesel fuel to someone like Tim McVeigh. Or the stockboy who put end fittings in the bin for Eric Rudolph to buy.
If I KNOWINGLY made the sale, I'd probably feel giddy. Because I would be a demonstrable psychopath. And probably rocked myself to sleep wearing nothing but a bathrobe woven from dead kittens and slippers fashioned from live chickens.
I don't buy in to this "collective guilt" idea. If I did wrong, punish me. But don't try to hold me accountable for what someone else did with evil in their heart.
Oh, and by clicking on this thread with them two bastages names in it, you are now on a new list.
My present to each of you. Courtesy of the patriot act. [}:)]
quote:Originally posted by 427cobra289
How would you feel if you sold a car and the new owner mowed down a bunch of kids in a crosswalk?
Why would someone buy a car to commit murder, when they could test drive it for free, you dont let someone test own a gun you have for sale
Apples and oranges
I myself believe everygun I have is a great responsibility, I store them safely, and keep records, I have every recipt since 1989, wether it be a gun I purchased or sold
I have never sold a gun to a complete stranger, I have enough friends I never felt the need to do so, but I have seen some spooky people in my lifetime that I would not feel comfortable with selling a firearm
Fair enough. I suppose the keyword in your initial post is "intent". My point is that once an item has left my possession, that I have no control over it so while I'd be sad and wish that circumstances were different I wouldn't let Free Will of another eat me up too bad. For the record, I would never knowingly sell any item that I suspected would be used in such a way so as to harm others be it to a friend or otherwise. Like yourself I accept the responsibility of gun ownership and I avoid selling to total strangers for the same reasons.
I never sell guns outside proper channels (i.e. I'm following the law) - never have - never will.
Read this, youll all see how its related to this subject
I couldn't care less.
I never sell guns outside proper channels (i.e. I'm following the law) - never have - never will.
ftf sales are well within the law.
I've bought and sold ftf.
Mostly complete strangers.
No IDs asked for, or shown.
There is no law saying I have to ask.
But there was also no trail leading to me on any gun I've ever sold.
A friend of mine sold a .22 Raven in his gun shop back when we had a 3 day waiting period .
All went well and the guy picked up the gun , drove out in the woods and committed suicide .
we can't stop people from being stupid .[V]
i cant possibly be held accountable for what someone does with something after it leaves my hands. if i loan a guy my hammer and, because it happens to be handy when he snaps, he uses it to beat his wife to death, thats not my problem either.
every time ive sold a gun ftf, ive defined a prohibited person and asked the buyer if they were prohibited from buying a gun. thats all i can do. beyond that im not going to lose any sleep over it, whether it be a suicide, homicide, mass murder, or one gun being responsible for an entire genocide.
But I dont believe a word of it from any of you, I have gotten to know many of you over the years, I dont buy the tough guy act for a min, your a bunch of softies and cry over someone elses pet passing away
It would haunt you the rest of your life
You guys may say that it wouldn't bother you, and you hold no responsibility
But I dont believe a word of it from any of you, I have gotten to know many of you over the years, I dont buy the tough guy act for a min, your a bunch of softies and cry over someone elses pet passing away
It would haunt you the rest of your life
perhaps you're generalizing, but if you honestly think any of that applies to me, then you clearly dont know me at all...
You guys may say that it wouldn't bother you, and you hold no responsibility
But I dont believe a word of it from any of you, I have gotten to know many of you over the years, I dont buy the tough guy act for a min, your a bunch of softies and cry over someone elses pet passing away
It would haunt you the rest of your life
Well I don't believe you. Period.
And no, it wouldn't be any concern of mine WHAT SO EVER !
I might think it's a shame that it was used in a crime, and will now be destroyed... if it was a good gun. But that's it.
Gun's don't kill - as you might know.
It's just an object, a tool that someone can choose to use.
How would you feel if you sold a car and the new owner mowed down a bunch of kids in a crosswalk?
Bingo. I wouldn't have even a smidge of guilt or bad feeling. All guilt goes on the shoulders of the person who committed the crime. I'll sleep fine that night. Extended guilt is for woosies.
As far as responsibility goes, yes, I always "felt" that I had some measure of responsibility. Back in the day when the 4473 was all of one page, front and back, it said something about knowing your customer. In fact, I think that the specific words were "know your customer." I just looked at the current form and there is nothing like that now. A couple of other points might be of interest. First, with regard to responsibility, I've been questioned by police, coroners, prosecutors and federal agents regarding deaths that resulted from firearms that I've sold. It was my signature on the line and therefore they came to me. The hardest ones are when the friends and family come to ask questions. Always difficult, sometimes violent. Second, it's not just about guns. The first weapon that I sold that was used in a murder was a crossbow. The guy set up his girlfriend with a romantic picnic by the river and then used the crossbow to shoot her in the head. He planned it all along. It was my first day in a new shop and other guys thought it would be great to watch me sell a crossbow to a guy who had already tried to buy a gun and been turned down becasue of his honest answers to the 4473 questions. Yea, it was a real hoot for them to watch me make the sale, but things turned after the murder, especially after the police nearly charged them as accessories, knowing that he was up to no good and facilitating it by allowing me to sell him the crossbow. And that is just the first one. As I said, there were 22 others. Been there, done that.
I think the key here is unknown to you-
I would probably pause and reflect to see if I could have done anything different- someone intent on murder will find a way to get it done regardless of who sells them the tool or what the tool is.
Yes...
In a F2F sale... I would certainly ask a couple of questions... But outside of general information...
What could be asked or directed to the buyer that would uncover any illegal intents ?
I dare say, I'm no psychologist but, I do think I can read a person's body language enough to know...
If, I am comfortable enough with the sale... And if not, then I'd be hard pressed on going through with it.
I certainly would not have any difficulty in cancelling the buy agreement.
There's ALWAYS someone willing to buy a gun for sale...
No reason to go through with a sale, that I personally, am uncomfortable with.
But, once a sale was done and we have parted ways...
I feel that I would have done my due diligence and would have no further involvement with said gun... or the buyer.
So, at that point, what is done with the gun or by the buyer... is not my responsibility.
It certainly makes one stop, pause, and think... If for but a moment.
This could be done with a simple executive order. No one's privacy would be compromised. No records would exist that could be used to track transfers or gun owners.
It's the right thing to do.
Neal
You should also be able to use your internet access to check whether a gun is listed in NCIC as stolen. You, as the buyer, could CYA and save yourself from being burned for possession at some later date.
quote:Originally posted by HappyNanoq
I couldn't care less.
I never sell guns outside proper channels (i.e. I'm following the law) - never have - never will.
ftf sales are well within the law.
I've bought and sold ftf.
Mostly complete strangers.
No IDs asked for, or shown.
There is no law saying I have to ask.
But there was also no trail leading to me on any gun I've ever sold.
Nanook is a foreigner.
Clouder..
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
You guys may say that it wouldn't bother you, and you hold no responsibility
But I dont believe a word of it from any of you, I have gotten to know many of you over the years, I dont buy the tough guy act for a min, your a bunch of softies and cry over someone elses pet passing away
It would haunt you the rest of your life
It wouldn't bother me if it was used to commit suicide. It would bother me if it was used to commit evil.
OTOH, I don't really know how I would ever know what was done with it.
Brad Steele
A knife, axe, chainsaw, srtaight razor, etc. are all potential lethal weapons!
I have sold and or given away these items -and you probably have too- without any thought to their future felonious applications.
Why would a firarm be different?
A loony is a loony..... A gun is an inanimate tool. [;)]
Well I guess its my fault for not being clear, I was reffering to individual ftf sale
I'd feel bad, but I'd feel a lot worse if I sold it to someone I had a bad feeling about or didn't make an attempt to get a feel for prior to the sale.
He killed two people the next day when the the sting operation blew up. {The cops were made from the start}
I actually felt pretty good about it.
Either you believe that 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' or you don't.
Same way some people ask me "Doesn't it bother you, those vintage military guns and bayonets could have been used to kill someone?" Nope.
A grocery sold some milk and it spoiled in a babies stomach, how should the cashier feel?, thats how relevant some of these replies are