In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Man camps "illegally" gets killed by cops
nemesisenforcer
Member Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭
Comments
This guy might have had a troubled past, but the local stations are all falling in lockstep with (brand new) Police Chief Gordon Eden's assertions that only 2 cops fired, and each only fired 3 shots.
KOAT TV's video shows what happened right after the cops (who were concerned about this guy's welfare, or so it goes) exploded a flash bang right in front of this guy, and released the K9.
The guy reaches down to shoo or stab the dog, and it turns away and crouches about 10 feet in front of the guy.
The K9 handler wanders up, closer to the guy, grabs the dog, and starts to back away when the guy starts to turn around and 9 shots are heard.
He falls to the ground and pleads not to be hurt anymore, then is hit with a few beanbags in the groinal area.
This department has already earned 3 investigations from the DOJ, and now there's another shooting/killing by APD.
I think that makes 18 or so in the last year.
Facts are:
The guy was ok until the cops showed up.
The cops decided to escalate over 4 hours, because the guy was being defensive in his stance, and verbally threatening NINE fully armed and armored "professionals".
He had a pocketknife in one hand, and another in his pocket.
Lots of bums sleep in the Foothills where this guy was, hell, I used to camp in the Foothills as a kid.
9 shots are heard on the tape.
It's murder.
perfectly acceptable, the cop did not know it was illegal
Uninformed! Don
Not a good idea.
Then according to the article.......
"Boyd appears to pull out knives in both hands as an officer with a dog approaches him. He makes a threatening motion toward the officer, then starts to turn around away from police."
This is starting to NOT sound like a murder.
Really? That statement is VERY close to crossing the line and becomming a Terroristic threat on an Officers life...plenty to put all Officers on alert, all Officers involved.
quote:"Boyd appears to pull out knives in both hands as an officer with a dog approaches him. He makes a threatening motion toward the officer, then starts to turn around away from police."
NOT too smart considering what is easily interpretid as a threat on Officers.
I guess some people here would have been in the Officers situation and have ignored what he had just said,, doubt if any Officer should give a second thought about their own safety, after all he was just camping...and everyone knows if someone is camping they would never kill anyone...[^]
So from that I would say that the ones who escalated the affair to the lethal level was the police.
I am not prepared for the mental gymnastics required to justify 9 armed and armored cops killing an individual armed with a pocket knife no matter how crazy he was talking. I am also not prepared to classify movement to avoid grenades and attack dogs as threatening. Simple question...who attacked whom first?
How it would have played out if the fuzzy guys had just approached and discussed the problem with the guy in a reasonable and respectful manner will never be known.
lets see, folks been shot/killed for jaywalking if i remember correctly,,, now illegal camping, having their dog on a lease that the cops say was attacking, old folks in their home in their bed, one had a cane the cop thought was a gun, kicking in doors at the wrong house,,toy guns that were never pointed at them, feel free to add to the list
YMMV Smoky
which one would you feel more comfortable around..just wait til all the old school cops are gone and all we have are the shaved headed thugs...i remember the motorcycle cops like these...and the cars with one light ...now they dress like storm troopers and the cars have more lights than the close encounters space ship..
I've seen it transcend from the days of Mayberry RFD to the current 'Storm Trooper' state...
It scares the hell outta me... Maybe that's the intended result. [?]
quote:Originally posted by riflemike
which one would you feel more comfortable around..just wait til all the old school cops are gone and all we have are the shaved headed thugs...i remember the motorcycle cops like these...and the cars with one light ...now they dress like storm troopers and the cars have more lights than the close encounters space ship..
I've seen it transcend from the days of Mayberry RFD to the current 'Storm Trooper' state...
It scares the hell outta me... Maybe that's the intended result. [?]
yes itimidation is the goal......
When Sandy was hired by APD, the department said he would be a civilian employee and he wouldn't have a gun or a badge. However, Sandy quickly rose through the department, landing on the ROPE Team, which goes after repeat offenders or some of the city's most dangerous criminals.
http://krqe.com/2014/03/21/apd-officer-involved-shooting-was-justified/
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
"Killed for illegal camping" is about as accurate as saying a condemned child killer was executed for eating his last meal.
It has been proven many times that a guy with a knife can cover 30+ feet and have your guts on the floor in a little over 1.5 seconds.
"Killed for illegal camping" is about as accurate as saying a condemned child killer was executed for eating his last meal.
For more than 20 years now, a concept called the 21-Foot Rule has been a core component in training officers to defend themselves against edged weapons.
Originating from research by Salt Lake City trainer Dennis Tueller and popularized by the Street Survival Seminar and the seminal instructional video "Surviving Edged Weapons," the "rule" states that in the time it takes the average officer to recognize a threat, draw his sidearm and fire 2 rounds at center mass, an average subject charging at the officer with a knife or other cutting or stabbing weapon can cover a distance of 21 feet.
http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
It has been proven many times that a guy with a knife can cover 30+ feet and have your guts on the floor in a little over 1.5 seconds.
"Killed for illegal camping" is about as accurate as saying a condemned child killer was executed for eating his last meal.
You refer to the old "rule of 21"....Meaning a person with a knife can cover the 21 feet faster than the average person can un-holster, draw and fire. Normally I would say you're right....but given the rocky terrain and the fact there were guns ALREADY aimed at this individual, that rule doesn't apply. From watching the video, I definitely see the heightened state of alert of the officers based on the comments the guy said and his defiant stance / attituide, but the whole flash-bang was un-called for. From what I can tell, that's what escalated this into a deadly shooting. Senseless and so very avoidable, in my opinion.
These guys look like a clown show
quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
It has been proven many times that a guy with a knife can cover 30+ feet and have your guts on the floor in a little over 1.5 seconds.
"Killed for illegal camping" is about as accurate as saying a condemned child killer was executed for eating his last meal.
You refer to the old "rule of 21"....Meaning a person with a knife can cover the 21 feet faster than the average person can un-holster, draw and fire. Normally I would say you're right....but given the rocky terrain and the fact there were guns ALREADY aimed at this individual, that rule doesn't apply. From watching the video, I definitely see the heightened state of alert of the officers based on the comments the guy said and his defiant stance / attituide, but the whole flash-bang was un-called for. From what I can tell, that's what escalated this into a deadly shooting. Senseless and so very avoidable, in my opinion.
i can run 21 feet in the opposite direction faster than someone comeing at me with a knife can[}:)]
In the article the photo has a cop with a pump shotgun with the yellow stock, I thought that was a "bean Bag" gun. Why didn't they use that if they thought he was attacking?
These guys look like a clown show
He actually has a yellow band of tape on the barrel of the "beanbag" gun.
You can see it quite clearly in the ( KOAT TV channel 7) video, shooting at the guy's groin 3 times after 12 shots (not 9) rang out from at least 2 AR-type rifles and a pistol, lying on the ground, begging them not to hurt him anymore.
The "standoff" took over 5 hours to accomplish, and it was allegedly started to check on his welfare.
The guy was a vagabond with previously diagnosed mental issues; he thought (I'm sure) that because there was a crowd of armed and armored cops around, that they probably wouldn't shoot him dead.
Sure, he talked a lot of smack to the cops over the course of the confrontation, but where would bad language justify killing him?
The last police chief we had quit after getting a job in Round Rock, Texas (probably so he could charge per diem for having to travel back to answer charges brought by the DOJ).
The new chief used to be a US Marshal, a liaison for the SS (no, no; the Secret Service, not the other guys), and brings a "new" attitude concerning "transparency".
So far in the last 12-18 months, APD has killed a few Vets, some bums, a couple of bystanders, and ignored a mom & dad involved in kicking their son to death (the Dad was arrested for driving around MY neighborhood with a set of scales, a small amount of pot, 210 grams of meth, a bag of heroin, and a gun). Guess they didn't want to violate their right to retroactively abort their 12 year-old Son.
Vs Jack booted storm troopers killing campers.
My how things have changed![}:)]
...Stick to talking about the POSTED article, "just the related facts ma'am, just the facts", head into the general cop bashing bashing area and we will get locked...since this is NOT, & will NOT become a cop bashing forum...[;)]
Looks like general discussion in a general discussion forum.