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Response from WA state Patrol about the AR15

MVPMVP Member Posts: 25,074
edited March 2011 in General Discussion
Here is the letter I received today from the WA state patrol in response to the letter a few weeks ago requesting all information on AR15 sales for the last 10 months.
Just thought some of you would like to read it.

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Comments

  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,619 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    haha well, they just opened up a new can of worms by asking about lower receivers!
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • NwcidNwcid Member Posts: 10,674
    edited November -1
    Still don't get why they need names of all the people that bought AR "lowers"......
  • 35 Whelen35 Whelen Member Posts: 15,200
    edited November -1
    Sounds like a typical cookie-cutter response to me. If one of their agency AR's is missing, why aren't they scouring their checkout lists (if such a thing exists, I have no idea there)? They need to look under their own roof if anything.
    An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.
  • TopkickTopkick Member Posts: 4,449
    edited November -1
    Well, it IS in the interest of "public Safety".
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
    Still don't get why they need names of all the people that bought AR "lowers"......





    'cuz they have a nice upper to mate it to. (They've tossed the lower, as it can be backtraced). Joe
  • dongizmodongizmo Member Posts: 14,477 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by givette
    quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
    Still don't get why they need names of all the people that bought AR "lowers"......





    'cuz they have a nice upper to mate it to. (They've tossed the lower, as it can be backtraced). Joe

    Yep, a $99.00 stripped lower and they are good to go...
    Don
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
  • PanzerSlayer2PanzerSlayer2 Member Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What led them to the conclusion that the thief got rid of the lower? Even if the thief did get rid of the lower they are on a huge fishing expedition interviewing everyone who bought a lower
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    Let me get this straight....

    They're missing an AR, so they're looking sideways at everyone who's purchased a lower receiver in their state over the past 8-9 months with the idea that whoever has their rifle will possibly be wanting to replace the serial numbered portion of this gun?

    Give me a break.
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,807 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Seems to me I'd be focusing on how the thief got access to the rifle and going from there
  • medic07medic07 Member Posts: 5,222 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Still a fishing expedition IMO.

    So a person could buy a stripped lower to mate it to. So are they going to go house to house and demand to see the firearm so they can see if their upper is on it?

    Better yet...have they marked their uppers to show they are WSP property? Most agencies mark the receiver and do not think about the uppers.

    There are only a handful of possibilities of what happened:
    1. Stolen out of the armory by an employee
    2. Signed out to a WSP officer and stolen from his/her vehicle
    3. Sold by said officer once it was signed out
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Txs
    Let me get this straight....

    They're missing an AR, so they're looking sideways at everyone who's purchased a lower receiver in their state over the past 8-9 months with the idea that whoever has their rifle will possibly be wanting to replace the serial numbered portion of this gun?

    Give me a break.



    My post was in direct response to Nwcid's question. If I'd have thought of a better reason, I would have obviously posted it. Best, Joe
  • NwcidNwcid Member Posts: 10,674
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by givette
    quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
    Still don't get why they need names of all the people that bought AR "lowers"......





    'cuz they have a nice upper to mate it to. (They've tossed the lower, as it can be backtraced). Joe


    While correct how are they going to ID the upper or the person that "may" have stolen it since they cant even confirm it is stolen.........

    So they are still asking for a ton of info they can do NOTHING with.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,619 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    they're not even very good at going forward, let alone trying to back pedal like this.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 25,074
    edited November -1
    I wonder if I reported my AR15 as stolen the State Patrol would go to same extent in their investigation for me.
    They are asking for over 1000 licensed dealers to spend countless hours compileing a report of sales that stretches back several months. I wish an engineer would calculate the amount of man hours that would go into this and put an hourly labor rate to it and then show the WSP that they could buy a new Colt AR15 for less than a 1/2 of 1% this investigation is costing.
    My response is for the WSP to buy a new one and wait for the stolen one to turn back up, if ever, just like everyone else would have to.
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,366 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Last year I had to go to the Maryland State Police barracks in order to request approval to sell a handgun to a friend, as required by Maryland state law. As my friend & I sat in the public lobby completing the paperwork, 4 prisoners from the nearby state prison, pushing trash cans & carrying brooms, were admitted to the secure area. I guess they work cheaper than a cleaning service. To my surprise, a couple of months later they caught a prisoner on that work detail stealing a gun from that barracks!

    I think it worth asking the WA state police who cleans their building.

    Neal
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by givette
    quote:Originally posted by Txs
    Let me get this straight....

    They're missing an AR, so they're looking sideways at everyone who's purchased a lower receiver in their state over the past 8-9 months with the idea that whoever has their rifle will possibly be wanting to replace the serial numbered portion of this gun?

    Give me a break.



    My post was in direct response to Nwcid's question. If I'd have thought of a better reason, I would have obviously posted it. Best, Joe
    My post wasn't directed toward your's at all.

    I was only stating my opinion of this illogical plan of their's.
  • shoff14shoff14 Member Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I bet they know who did it. Also bet they believe that person bought a lower and dumped the colt lower. If they can determine that said person bought a lower, they may be able to nail the said person. Colt AR uppers are marked in such a way that identification of a Colt upper is very simple.
  • wittynbearwittynbear Member Posts: 4,518
    edited November -1
    I guess they should look in their own backyard first, did the officer that signed it out report it stolen? if he did investigate him, Did he secure the weapon properly? Did he lock his doors? If he didn't they should fire the him and take it out of his final paycheck. If the officer is cleared then try to take fingerprints, maybe DNA if they cut themselves on broken glass. Interview possible witnesses, find known criminals who might have been in the area at the time it was stolen, check pawnshops, you know basic police work, which I guess they don't do anymore.

    However there is no reason to try and strong arm FFL dealers into placing themselves into a situation where they may be sucessfully sued. My guess is everyone is telling them to get bent and they are unable to compile the information they want, which I have to say probably has nothing to do with anything being stolen. My guess is they want to find out what kind of armament certain groups in the area have been buying. They can't legally get it, so they try to strong arm people into giving it to them and when that doesn't work they make up a piss poor sob story.

    I'd send them a letter back saying: I can not provide the requested information without a court order, otherwise it would open me to possible civil action. If you will go through proper channels and notify my local law enforcement agency so that they can notify me I will check the provided serial number of your supposedly stolen firearm against all transactions I have made concerning a like firearm and inform my local law enforcement agency if and only if it matches a transaction. If you will not go through proper channels this letter will be considered a scam and be thrown away with the other junk mail. All future direct correspondence from your agency with me will need to be handled by my attorney (enter attorney name and address here)
  • nutfinnnutfinn Member Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The AR that went missing is probably FA, right?
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shoff14
    Colt AR uppers are marked in such a way that identification of a Colt upper is very simple.Of course they are, but how many thousands of Colt upper assemblies are floating around out there? Unless their rifle was somehow uniquely marked on the upper it would be impossible to prove a particular one was their's

    Bear in mind that in any criminal court case the defendant's guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    I guess they should look in their own backyard first, did the officer that signed it out report it stolen? if he did investigate him, Did he secure the weapon properly? Did he lock his doors? If he didn't they should fire the him and take it out of his final paycheck.In all probability that's already taken place or they wouldn't be hanging their 'we are missing a gun and have no idea what happened' dirty laundry in public. That's a black eye you can bet they did their best to avoid.

    What sort of discipline was meted out over this may or may not be open to the public due to it being a personnel issue, but the missing gun is a criminal matter they're invesigating.

    In order for them to enter it as stolen with NCIC there has to be a theft report on file. I'm waiting on someone to file a FOIA request for a copy.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    That one would go in the same trash can the first one went in...
  • tneff1969tneff1969 Member Posts: 6,682
    edited November -1
    Looks like to me that they should be looking for Colt AR lowers, actually one specific one that has serial #LBD021321. Don't really think any of the others are gonna be stamped exactly the same as that one, if I was a betting man I would looking for a Colt that matched that one.
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MVP
    I wonder if I reported my AR15 as stolen the State Patrol would go to same extent in their investigation for me.
    They are asking for over 1000 licensed dealers to spend countless hours compileing a report of sales that stretches back several months. I wish an engineer would calculate the amount of man hours that would go into this and put an hourly labor rate to it and then show the WSP that they could buy a new Colt AR15 for less than a 1/2 of 1% this investigation is costing.
    My response is for the WSP to buy a new one and wait for the stolen one to turn back up, if ever, just like everyone else would have to.


    Thats my Question.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,619 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tneff1969
    Looks like to me that they should be looking for Colt AR lowers, actually one specific one that has serial #LBD021321. Don't really think any of the others are gonna be stamped exactly the same as that one, if I was a betting man I would looking for a Colt that matched that one.
    hardly rocket science huh. I totally agree. What a huge charlie foxtrot they have going on here.

    We have this, and now the Feds are investigating the Seattle PD for civil rights violations.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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