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Why do gunowners love NICS?

cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
edited September 2011 in General Discussion
Yeah, I'm having a discussion on another forum and I'm the only one that cares that NICS violates the 4th amendment.

I never thought that there would be so many of them. I guess I know where the "sportsmen for obama" come from.
«1

Comments

  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,404 ******
    edited November -1
    the fact of the matter is there are plenty of gun owners who are a) ignorant of their rights b) happy with the current restrictions on their rights c) do not understand the plain language of amendment 2.

    Countless arguments on this forum have been waged discussing this very topic, and a surprising number of those who side with the gun controllers appears every time.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you mean NCIS. It is make believe, but I love watching the bad guys fall victim to Jethro and company.
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Besides, I have to deal with TICS.
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by thunderbolt
    If you mean NCIS. It is make believe, but I love watching the bad guys fall victim to Jethro and company.


    heh. I did correct one guy who kept saying NCIS. [:o)]
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,188 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    Yeah, I'm having a discussion on another forum and I'm the only one that cares that NICS violates the 4th amendment.

    I never thought that there would be so many of them. I guess I know where the "sportsmen for obama" come from.


    What forum is it?

    Can you give me a link? Or email it to me if you don't want to post it here?
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    ........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.



    How?
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    ........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.



    How?


    search without probable cause
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    ........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.



    How?


    search without probable cause


    Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    ........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.



    How?


    search without probable cause


    Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?


    Do you really think NICS keeps guns away from nuts and bad guys? If you believe that, then I have a 189 mph volkswagen to sell you.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    ........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.



    How?


    search without probable cause


    Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?


    Do you really think NICS keeps guns away from nuts and bad guys? If you believe that, then I have a 189 mph volkswagen to sell you.


    It stops a quite a few of them from BUYING them; I would prefer a 188 MPH Audi, please. [:D]
  • MossbergboogieMossbergboogie Member Posts: 12,211
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    ........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.



    How?


    search without probable cause



    Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?


    Who determines what a nut bag or bad guy is? Answer politicains.. Yeah great idea.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.

    The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,404 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    ........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.



    How?


    search without probable cause


    Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?


    Do you really think NICS keeps guns away from nuts and bad guys? If you believe that, then I have a 189 mph volkswagen to sell you.
    Bruce is one of those I mentioned above.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • NavybatNavybat Member Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.

    The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.


    +1
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,404 ******
    edited November -1
    see cce1302... they're abundant here too.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Brady Campaign likes it.



    JPFO, SAF, GOA oppose it.




    Choose your side.
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,188 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ....all the usual arguments over there.

    "reasonable restrictions" are OK....the courts have said so!

    If you have nothing to hide....don't worry about it.

    And....my favorite....NICS keeps felons from getting guns.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,404 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.

    The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.
    Trying to make your case for a position on the board of the NRA?
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by guntech59
    ....all the usual arguments over there.

    "reasonable restrictions" are OK....the courts have said so!

    If you have nothing to hide....don't worry about it.

    And....my favorite....NICS keeps felons from getting guns.


    As if there was some comfort in "Well, I know your brother was shot by a convicted felon, but at least the felon didn't buy the gun from an FFL."

    They say NICS makes it harder to buy a gun. I have bought more guns without a NICS check than I have bought with a NICS check, and there are tons of people here the same way. NICS is worthless.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No, Mr Imperfect. Just pointing out that if you demand all or nothing, you are very, very likely to get nothing.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.


    You haven't paid for it yet.
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    No, Mr Imperfect. Just pointing out that if you demand all or nothing, you are very, very likely to get nothing.


    And if you give up when you have nothing, you'll never get anything.


    We're not trying for everything at once, I just want one back at a time. We're making progress while you heckle.
  • JamesRKJamesRK Member Posts: 25,670 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.

    The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.

    Seat belts aren't evil. Seat belts are good. Seat belts save lives. Laws requiring their use under penalty of law are evil.

    There were no gun laws before 1934 and the nation survived, so it's not impossible. Not likely but not impossible.
    The road to hell is paved with COMPROMISE.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,404 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    No, Mr Imperfect. Just pointing out that if you demand all or nothing, you are very, very likely to get nothing.
    the exact tact the NRA has used.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,188 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ....shall NOT be infringed.

    Where is the room for play in that statement?
  • calrugerfancalrugerfan Member Posts: 18,209
    edited November -1
    In my opinion, the NICS most likely does keep SOME people from owning guns that shouldn't. As for having NO gun laws, Rocky said that its impossible. I disagree. However, in order to get to that point in this society, we need to fix some other things first; namely, the justice/prison system. If dangerous criminals really were kept behind bars instead of being let out early, things would start changing. If death row inmates were actually put to death, things would start changing. If lawsuits were banned completely when the subject of the suit happened during the course of the claimant breaking the law, things would start to change.

    Make those changes and MOST, if not ALL, gun laws would be not be necessary. In our current society, with our current state of affairs, many of the CURRENT laws are not only not necessary and are actually counter productive. I would not say that the NICS is counter productive.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    ........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.



    How?


    search without probable cause


    A search of public records, which is what the NICS actually is, is not a violation of the security of an individual's house, person, papers, or effects. Furthermore, it is a search of those records that is specifically requested by the potential buyer.

    The suggestion that this is a 4th Amendment issue is, IMO, flawed and ignorant argument, and a diversion from the actual and obvious infringement of 2nd Amendment protections. The acceptance of the NICS is the acceptance of the principle that the Federal Government legally retains the power to control access to firearms on an individual level. While it is obvious that if you pass their test you are allowed access, it should be equally obvious that the process is an infringement of that access.

    Government control of who is allowed to own firearms and governmental dictates as to what type of firearms an individual is allowed own remain infringements on the right to keep and bear arms.

    The implementation of NICS requires a Constitutional Amendment, not to excuse an Amendment 4 violation, but to empower any government to license, restrict or regulate the transference of firearms. We know that the Heller and McDonald decisions granted this power through judicial fiat, but shouldn't we insist upon a more formal approach to changing the basic law of the land?
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • DRP-AZDRP-AZ Member Posts: 2,318 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Knowing that the ATF, in furtherance of their illegal and poorly-conceived gunrunning operations, had the NICS check "rigged" to allow otherwise prohibited possessors to obtain firearms...I'd say the NICS check is BS and a fraud.

    If the authorities can dummy up the results, there's no point in having it in place.
  • mike_02mike_02 Member Posts: 259 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What part of 'shall not be infringed' do they not comprehend?
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.

    The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.

    Seat belts aren't evil. Seat belts are good. Seat belts save lives. Laws requiring their use under penalty of law are evil.

    There were no gun laws before 1934 and the nation survived, so it's not impossible. Not likely but not impossible.


    Once again James, I love your uncanny ability to say so much in so few words.
    Well said....
  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mike_02
    What part of 'shall not be infringed' do they not comprehend?


    The "not" part.
  • minitruck83minitruck83 Member Posts: 5,369
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.


    I understand there's one up for sale in Kali.
    Take it for a test drive.


    [:D]

    Allen
  • Tech141Tech141 Member Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.


    Well here ya go...
    jedesign_a8.jpg

    http://forums.thecarlounge.com/showthread.php?2672734-JE-Design-s-188-mph-Supercharged-Audi-A8
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    There is no way to keep the bad guys from getting guns, especially when we have irresponsible gun owners that leave them in their cars, laying around their house (easy access) and people willing to sell a gun to just anybody that has a few dollars..The criminal will find a way to steal it.

    The criminal check does one thing, stops those that think they can slip through the cracks, Now the question is , is it worth it? What price should the law abiding citizen have to pay?
  • NavybatNavybat Member Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    see cce1302... they're abundant here too.


    Yeah yeah. I'm just not worried about it. Aren't you the guy who's been criticizing me again and again for taking things too seriously? Now I'm not serious ENOUGH? Which is it?

    I've got my guns. Legally. I had no issues getting them--took me less than an hour to walk in, pick them, fill out the forms, get the phone check, pay, and walk out. Who cares whether they CHECK on things or not? I've got nothing to hide is the mantra, right?

    Yes, I let the courts decide and then go with what they say. I follow the law. Baaaaaa.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No gun laws before 1934? I think you'd better go re-read your history, fellas. That whole "Shot Heard Round the World" thing? It started because of gun laws.

    NICS is in fact a win for us. It's a whole lot better than the mandatory waiting period and indefinite and interminable records searches that we WOULD have if not for such groups as the NRA. It IS a small step towards our goal. But go ahead and rant. All you display is childish irrationality.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,404 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Navybat
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    see cce1302... they're abundant here too.


    Yeah yeah. I'm just not worried about it. Aren't you the guy who's been criticizing me again and again for taking things too seriously? Now I'm not serious ENOUGH? Which is it?

    I've got my guns. Legally. I had no issues getting them--took me less than an hour to walk in, pick them, fill out the forms, get the phone check, pay, and walk out. Who cares whether they CHECK on things or not? I've got nothing to hide is the mantra, right?

    Yes, I let the courts decide and then go with what they say. I follow the law. Baaaaaa.
    It's one thing to take the forums too seriously, and quite another to NOT take Amendment 2 (or 4) seriously, which is clearly the case here.

    Our country is in grave danger if our defenders of liberty think as you do. And I take that quite seriously.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,404 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tech141
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.


    Well here ya go...
    jedesign_a8.jpg

    http://forums.thecarlounge.com/showthread.php?2672734-JE-Design-s-188-mph-Supercharged-Audi-A8
    no, no, the one Bruce wants is black, looks like a Ford Taurus. An S8, I believe.[;)]
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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