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Why do gunowners love NICS?
cce1302
Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
Yeah, I'm having a discussion on another forum and I'm the only one that cares that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
I never thought that there would be so many of them. I guess I know where the "sportsmen for obama" come from.
I never thought that there would be so many of them. I guess I know where the "sportsmen for obama" come from.
Comments
Countless arguments on this forum have been waged discussing this very topic, and a surprising number of those who side with the gun controllers appears every time.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
If you mean NCIS. It is make believe, but I love watching the bad guys fall victim to Jethro and company.
heh. I did correct one guy who kept saying NCIS. [:o)]
Yeah, I'm having a discussion on another forum and I'm the only one that cares that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
I never thought that there would be so many of them. I guess I know where the "sportsmen for obama" come from.
What forum is it?
Can you give me a link? Or email it to me if you don't want to post it here?
........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
How?
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
How?
search without probable cause
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
How?
search without probable cause
Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
How?
search without probable cause
Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?
Do you really think NICS keeps guns away from nuts and bad guys? If you believe that, then I have a 189 mph volkswagen to sell you.
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
How?
search without probable cause
Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?
Do you really think NICS keeps guns away from nuts and bad guys? If you believe that, then I have a 189 mph volkswagen to sell you.
It stops a quite a few of them from BUYING them; I would prefer a 188 MPH Audi, please. [:D]
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
How?
search without probable cause
Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?
Who determines what a nut bag or bad guy is? Answer politicains.. Yeah great idea.
The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
How?
search without probable cause
Probable cause for what? Where is the problem? What is wrong with keeping guns away form nuts and bad guys?
Do you really think NICS keeps guns away from nuts and bad guys? If you believe that, then I have a 189 mph volkswagen to sell you.
Bruce is one of those I mentioned above.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.
The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.
+1
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
JPFO, SAF, GOA oppose it.
Choose your side.
"reasonable restrictions" are OK....the courts have said so!
If you have nothing to hide....don't worry about it.
And....my favorite....NICS keeps felons from getting guns.
No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.
The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.
Trying to make your case for a position on the board of the NRA?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
....all the usual arguments over there.
"reasonable restrictions" are OK....the courts have said so!
If you have nothing to hide....don't worry about it.
And....my favorite....NICS keeps felons from getting guns.
As if there was some comfort in "Well, I know your brother was shot by a convicted felon, but at least the felon didn't buy the gun from an FFL."
They say NICS makes it harder to buy a gun. I have bought more guns without a NICS check than I have bought with a NICS check, and there are tons of people here the same way. NICS is worthless.
I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.
You haven't paid for it yet.
No, Mr Imperfect. Just pointing out that if you demand all or nothing, you are very, very likely to get nothing.
And if you give up when you have nothing, you'll never get anything.
We're not trying for everything at once, I just want one back at a time. We're making progress while you heckle.
No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.
The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.
Seat belts aren't evil. Seat belts are good. Seat belts save lives. Laws requiring their use under penalty of law are evil.
There were no gun laws before 1934 and the nation survived, so it's not impossible. Not likely but not impossible.
No, Mr Imperfect. Just pointing out that if you demand all or nothing, you are very, very likely to get nothing.
the exact tact the NRA has used.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Where is the room for play in that statement?
Make those changes and MOST, if not ALL, gun laws would be not be necessary. In our current society, with our current state of affairs, many of the CURRENT laws are not only not necessary and are actually counter productive. I would not say that the NICS is counter productive.
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
........... that NICS violates the 4th amendment.
How?
search without probable cause
A search of public records, which is what the NICS actually is, is not a violation of the security of an individual's house, person, papers, or effects. Furthermore, it is a search of those records that is specifically requested by the potential buyer.
The suggestion that this is a 4th Amendment issue is, IMO, flawed and ignorant argument, and a diversion from the actual and obvious infringement of 2nd Amendment protections. The acceptance of the NICS is the acceptance of the principle that the Federal Government legally retains the power to control access to firearms on an individual level. While it is obvious that if you pass their test you are allowed access, it should be equally obvious that the process is an infringement of that access.
Government control of who is allowed to own firearms and governmental dictates as to what type of firearms an individual is allowed own remain infringements on the right to keep and bear arms.
The implementation of NICS requires a Constitutional Amendment, not to excuse an Amendment 4 violation, but to empower any government to license, restrict or regulate the transference of firearms. We know that the Heller and McDonald decisions granted this power through judicial fiat, but shouldn't we insist upon a more formal approach to changing the basic law of the land?
Brad Steele
If the authorities can dummy up the results, there's no point in having it in place.
quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
No the National Instant Check System doesn't keep all bad guys from getting guns. But it does keep SOME apart. Chemo doesn't cure all cancers. Seat belts don't save every accident victim. But I don't hear you arguing that they are evil.
The point is that the INSTANT check is a whole lot less intrusive and inconvenient than a long waiting period or an outright ban on gun sales. You "all or nothing" guys need to understand that the only alternative to your impossible all is none. Having no gun laws is impossible. That's reality, no matter how much spittle you fling screaming about it.
Seat belts aren't evil. Seat belts are good. Seat belts save lives. Laws requiring their use under penalty of law are evil.
There were no gun laws before 1934 and the nation survived, so it's not impossible. Not likely but not impossible.
Once again James, I love your uncanny ability to say so much in so few words.
Well said....
What part of 'shall not be infringed' do they not comprehend?
The "not" part.
I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.
I understand there's one up for sale in Kali.
Take it for a test drive.
[:D]
Allen
I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.
Well here ya go...
http://forums.thecarlounge.com/showthread.php?2672734-JE-Design-s-188-mph-Supercharged-Audi-A8
The criminal check does one thing, stops those that think they can slip through the cracks, Now the question is , is it worth it? What price should the law abiding citizen have to pay?
see cce1302... they're abundant here too.
Yeah yeah. I'm just not worried about it. Aren't you the guy who's been criticizing me again and again for taking things too seriously? Now I'm not serious ENOUGH? Which is it?
I've got my guns. Legally. I had no issues getting them--took me less than an hour to walk in, pick them, fill out the forms, get the phone check, pay, and walk out. Who cares whether they CHECK on things or not? I've got nothing to hide is the mantra, right?
Yes, I let the courts decide and then go with what they say. I follow the law. Baaaaaa.
NICS is in fact a win for us. It's a whole lot better than the mandatory waiting period and indefinite and interminable records searches that we WOULD have if not for such groups as the NRA. It IS a small step towards our goal. But go ahead and rant. All you display is childish irrationality.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
see cce1302... they're abundant here too.
Yeah yeah. I'm just not worried about it. Aren't you the guy who's been criticizing me again and again for taking things too seriously? Now I'm not serious ENOUGH? Which is it?
I've got my guns. Legally. I had no issues getting them--took me less than an hour to walk in, pick them, fill out the forms, get the phone check, pay, and walk out. Who cares whether they CHECK on things or not? I've got nothing to hide is the mantra, right?
Yes, I let the courts decide and then go with what they say. I follow the law. Baaaaaa.
It's one thing to take the forums too seriously, and quite another to NOT take Amendment 2 (or 4) seriously, which is clearly the case here.
Our country is in grave danger if our defenders of liberty think as you do. And I take that quite seriously.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by bpost
I'm still waiting for my 188 MPH Audi.
Well here ya go...
http://forums.thecarlounge.com/showthread.php?2672734-JE-Design-s-188-mph-Supercharged-Audi-A8
no, no, the one Bruce wants is black, looks like a Ford Taurus. An S8, I believe.[;)]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain