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Did voter fraud take place? (take 3)
Mr. Perfect
Member, Moderator Posts: 66,404 ******
Just going to drop this here. Getting close to beating a dead horse.[:D][:D]
(Note: take 2, with link to take 1 here: https://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=689116)
Trump argument bolstered: Clinton could have received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study finds
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/26/hillary-clinton-received-800000-votes-from-nonciti/
Hillary Clinton garnered more than 800,000 votes from noncitizens on Nov. 8, an approximation far short of President Trump's estimate of up to 5 million illegal voters but supportive of his charges of fraud.
Political scientist Jesse Richman of Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, has worked with colleagues to produce groundbreaking research on noncitizen voting, and this week he posted a blog in response to Mr. Trump's assertion.
Based on national polling by a consortium of universities, a report by Mr. Richman said 6.4 percent of the estimated 20 million adult noncitizens in the U.S. voted in November. He extrapolated that that percentage would have added 834,381 net votes for Mrs. Clinton, who received about 2.8 million more votes than Mr. Trump.
PHOTOS: Pack your bags: Stars who vowed to leave America if Trump won
Mr. Richman calculated that Mrs. Clinton would have collected 81 percent of noncitizen votes.
"Is it plausible that non-citizen votes added to Clinton's margin? Yes," Mr. Richman wrote. "Is it plausible that non-citizen votes account for the entire nation-wide popular vote margin held by Clinton? Not at all."
Still, the finding is significant because it means noncitizens may have helped Mrs. Clinton carry a state or finish better than she otherwise would have.
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Mr. Trump's unverified accusation to congressional leaders this week, as reported by The Washington Post, has sent the issue skyward.
He apparently was referring to all types of fraud, such as the "dead" voting or multiple votes from the same person. But the thrust of his estimate appears to be that illegal immigrants and noncitizens carried the popular vote.
He returned to the issue Thursday in Philadelphia, where he spoke to congressional Republicans mapping this year's legislative calendar.
"We also need to keep the ballot box safe from illegal voting," the president said. "And, believe me, you take a look at what's registering, folks. Take a look at what's registering. We are going to protect the integrity of the ballot box, and we are going to defend the votes of the American citizen, so important."
The mainstream media reacted to Mr. Trump's assertion with derision. Liberal pundits said there is no evidence of fraud.
CNN's Jake Tapper called it "a stunning allegation for which the White House is providing no evidence. And there is a reason they are providing no evidence - there is no evidence. It is not true."
Esquire.com said, "The most bizarre lie of Donald Trump's presidency so far is his claim of widespread voter fraud in an election he won."
But conservative activists say the liberal media are ignoring evidence - that noncitizen voting is illegal and, thus, fraud. They say the Justice Department in the Obama administration was more concerned with preventing states from cleansing rosters of dead and inactive voters than in mounting any investigation into fraud.
"Most voters are never asked for voter ID, so it is dishonest to suggest that with the tens of millions of illegal and legal aliens here, there is no voter fraud," said Tom Fitton, who heads the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch. "If the key Old Dominion study results on the 2008 election are applied to 2016 - 1.41 million aliens may have voted illegally, with 1.13 million voting for Democrats."
"A federal voter fraud investigation is long overdue," Mr. Fitton said. "It would be a simple matter of analyzing voter registration databases against federal databases of aliens and deceased individuals. Why is the left afraid to even ask the questions? The jig is up."
There does not appear to be any concerted postelection effort by states to take on the daunting task of checking voter rolls and ballots to verify citizenship. In some states, no ID is required to register and vote.
In the absence of detailed accounting, the only scientific way to make an estimate is by post-vote polling.
Mr. Richman relies on a one-of-a-kind poll: the Cooperative Congressional Election Survey. Every two years, a consortium of 28 universities produces a detailed report on voters and their views based on polling by YouGov.
Tucked inside the lengthy questionnaire is a question on citizenship status: A significant number of respondents anonymously acknowledged they were not citizens when they voted.
Three professors at Old Dominion University - Mr. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha and David C. Earnest - took these answers, did further research and extrapolated that of a 19.4 million estimate of adult noncitizens, about 620,000 were illegally registered to vote in the 2008 presidential election. Using other measuring tools, they said, the actual number of noncitizen voters could be as low as 38,000 and as high as 2.8 million.
The U.S. Census Bureau reported in 2012 that there are 22 million noncitizens in the country. The group comprises illegal immigrants and people in the U.S. legally on a visa or permanent resident green card. Of this 22 million, 20 million were 18 or older, the U.S. voting age requirement.
Conservatives have long suspected that Democrats are tacitly encouraging illegal immigrants to vote. Liberal leaders have created "sanctuary cities" across the nation that refuse to work with federal immigration enforcement authorities.
President Obama was asked during the campaign last year if illegal immigrants had anything to fear from federal authorities if they voted in the presidential race.
"Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens - and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country - are fearful of voting," he was asked on a Latino YouTube channel. "`So if I vote, will Immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?'"
"Not true, and the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself," Mr. Obama said. "And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, etc. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential."
Some conservatives interpreted Mr. Obama's answer as a go-ahead signal, with his questionable assertion that voter rolls are off limits to federal investigators.
The WikiLeaks dump of Clinton campaign manger John Podesta's emails contained one message on directing immigrants to vote. He said immigrants should obtain driver's licenses and then attest at a polling place that they are U.S. citizens.
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Copyright c 2017 The Washington Times, LLC. Click here for reprint permission.
(Note: take 2, with link to take 1 here: https://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=689116)
Trump argument bolstered: Clinton could have received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study finds
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/26/hillary-clinton-received-800000-votes-from-nonciti/
Hillary Clinton garnered more than 800,000 votes from noncitizens on Nov. 8, an approximation far short of President Trump's estimate of up to 5 million illegal voters but supportive of his charges of fraud.
Political scientist Jesse Richman of Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, has worked with colleagues to produce groundbreaking research on noncitizen voting, and this week he posted a blog in response to Mr. Trump's assertion.
Based on national polling by a consortium of universities, a report by Mr. Richman said 6.4 percent of the estimated 20 million adult noncitizens in the U.S. voted in November. He extrapolated that that percentage would have added 834,381 net votes for Mrs. Clinton, who received about 2.8 million more votes than Mr. Trump.
PHOTOS: Pack your bags: Stars who vowed to leave America if Trump won
Mr. Richman calculated that Mrs. Clinton would have collected 81 percent of noncitizen votes.
"Is it plausible that non-citizen votes added to Clinton's margin? Yes," Mr. Richman wrote. "Is it plausible that non-citizen votes account for the entire nation-wide popular vote margin held by Clinton? Not at all."
Still, the finding is significant because it means noncitizens may have helped Mrs. Clinton carry a state or finish better than she otherwise would have.
Sponsored Content
Recommended by
PHOTOS: Most overrated actors in Hollywood
Mr. Trump's unverified accusation to congressional leaders this week, as reported by The Washington Post, has sent the issue skyward.
He apparently was referring to all types of fraud, such as the "dead" voting or multiple votes from the same person. But the thrust of his estimate appears to be that illegal immigrants and noncitizens carried the popular vote.
He returned to the issue Thursday in Philadelphia, where he spoke to congressional Republicans mapping this year's legislative calendar.
"We also need to keep the ballot box safe from illegal voting," the president said. "And, believe me, you take a look at what's registering, folks. Take a look at what's registering. We are going to protect the integrity of the ballot box, and we are going to defend the votes of the American citizen, so important."
The mainstream media reacted to Mr. Trump's assertion with derision. Liberal pundits said there is no evidence of fraud.
CNN's Jake Tapper called it "a stunning allegation for which the White House is providing no evidence. And there is a reason they are providing no evidence - there is no evidence. It is not true."
Esquire.com said, "The most bizarre lie of Donald Trump's presidency so far is his claim of widespread voter fraud in an election he won."
But conservative activists say the liberal media are ignoring evidence - that noncitizen voting is illegal and, thus, fraud. They say the Justice Department in the Obama administration was more concerned with preventing states from cleansing rosters of dead and inactive voters than in mounting any investigation into fraud.
"Most voters are never asked for voter ID, so it is dishonest to suggest that with the tens of millions of illegal and legal aliens here, there is no voter fraud," said Tom Fitton, who heads the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch. "If the key Old Dominion study results on the 2008 election are applied to 2016 - 1.41 million aliens may have voted illegally, with 1.13 million voting for Democrats."
"A federal voter fraud investigation is long overdue," Mr. Fitton said. "It would be a simple matter of analyzing voter registration databases against federal databases of aliens and deceased individuals. Why is the left afraid to even ask the questions? The jig is up."
There does not appear to be any concerted postelection effort by states to take on the daunting task of checking voter rolls and ballots to verify citizenship. In some states, no ID is required to register and vote.
In the absence of detailed accounting, the only scientific way to make an estimate is by post-vote polling.
Mr. Richman relies on a one-of-a-kind poll: the Cooperative Congressional Election Survey. Every two years, a consortium of 28 universities produces a detailed report on voters and their views based on polling by YouGov.
Tucked inside the lengthy questionnaire is a question on citizenship status: A significant number of respondents anonymously acknowledged they were not citizens when they voted.
Three professors at Old Dominion University - Mr. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha and David C. Earnest - took these answers, did further research and extrapolated that of a 19.4 million estimate of adult noncitizens, about 620,000 were illegally registered to vote in the 2008 presidential election. Using other measuring tools, they said, the actual number of noncitizen voters could be as low as 38,000 and as high as 2.8 million.
The U.S. Census Bureau reported in 2012 that there are 22 million noncitizens in the country. The group comprises illegal immigrants and people in the U.S. legally on a visa or permanent resident green card. Of this 22 million, 20 million were 18 or older, the U.S. voting age requirement.
Conservatives have long suspected that Democrats are tacitly encouraging illegal immigrants to vote. Liberal leaders have created "sanctuary cities" across the nation that refuse to work with federal immigration enforcement authorities.
President Obama was asked during the campaign last year if illegal immigrants had anything to fear from federal authorities if they voted in the presidential race.
"Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens - and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country - are fearful of voting," he was asked on a Latino YouTube channel. "`So if I vote, will Immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?'"
"Not true, and the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself," Mr. Obama said. "And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, etc. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential."
Some conservatives interpreted Mr. Obama's answer as a go-ahead signal, with his questionable assertion that voter rolls are off limits to federal investigators.
The WikiLeaks dump of Clinton campaign manger John Podesta's emails contained one message on directing immigrants to vote. He said immigrants should obtain driver's licenses and then attest at a polling place that they are U.S. citizens.
Sponsored Content
Recommended by
Copyright c 2017 The Washington Times, LLC. Click here for reprint permission.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Comments
The only way to fix it is the raycist voter ID law.
Yes and it has for the last 200 years.
The only way to fix it is the raycist voter ID law.
I just think it's funny, because in the last three days, without even hardly searching, I've found evidence that suggests it took place when the MSM and elected officials (senators and representatives alike) were all screaming "there is no evidence of voter fraud".
They're such a joke it isn't even worth listening to them anymore.[xx(]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Sam06
Yes and it has for the last 200 years.
The only way to fix it is the raycist voter ID law.
I just think it's funny, because in the last three days, without even hardly searching, I've found evidence that suggests it took place when the MSM and elected officials (senators and representatives alike) were all screaming "there is no evidence of voter fraud".
They're such a joke it isn't even worth listening to them anymore.[xx(]
They are a joke, and they are getting played like a violin. Trump makes a few comments, and the MSM and its collection of ButtBuddies run off screaming and yelling that 'there is no evidence'...and make people wonder then what are they so upset about. I talked to my neighbor yesterday, who is about as apolitical as you can get, and he asked me 'how do they know there is no evidence when it seems they never want to look'. His other comment was that it seemed a funny reaction from the same people who were all wound up about Hillary recounts last November.
As I have said, politics is a game of chess, and we are watching someone play who appears to be the love child of Bobby Fischer and Boris Spassky. This is gonna be a hoot.
Have you done any research on the Washington Times?
I probably should, eh?[:)]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Sam06
Yes and it has for the last 200 years.
The only way to fix it is the raycist voter ID law.
I just think it's funny, because in the last three days, without even hardly searching, I've found evidence that suggests it took place when the MSM and elected officials (senators and representatives alike) were all screaming "there is no evidence of voter fraud".
They're such a joke it isn't even worth listening to them anymore.[xx(]
The Media in this country is terrible. They are so slanted toward the libtards its sick. There is so much going on the world people in the US have no idea about because it doesn't fit the libtard agenda.
Now this voter fraud comes up but it doesn't fit their talking points so its either raycist or a right wing lie put out by the KKK[xx(] The jack wagons are showing their * so bad I cannot believe they have any credibility with anyone.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Sam06
Yes and it has for the last 200 years.
The only way to fix it is the raycist voter ID law.
I just think it's funny, because in the last three days, without even hardly searching, I've found evidence that suggests it took place when the MSM and elected officials (senators and representatives alike) were all screaming "there is no evidence of voter fraud".
They're such a joke it isn't even worth listening to them anymore.[xx(]
The Media in this country is terrible. They are so slanted toward the libtards its sick. There is so much going on the world people in the US have no idea about because it doesn't fit the libtard agenda.
Now this voter fraud comes up but it doesn't fit their talking points so its either raycist or a right wing lie put out by the KKK[xx(] The jack wagons are showing their * so bad I cannot believe they have any credibility with anyone.
It's getting particularly funny too, as I watch the media discuss "the media" as if they aren't the ones that need be concerned with the hypocrisy. Case in point, the Today Show has discussed "the media" all week with regard to bias, accuracy, and integrity all the while demonstrating they themselves have none of those qualities any where to be found in any of their reporting. They literally can't see the forest because of all the trees in their way.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
If it weren't for double standards, the left would have no standards at all.
quote:Originally posted by bigoutside
Have you done any research on the Washington Times?
I probably should, eh?[:)]
You might be surprised who owns it.
Pretty sure the Moonies haven't bought the WaPo.
There was a woman here in Texas the voted for herself 38 times in a city council election.
She registered at several different addresses using various configurations of her maiden and married names.
And you can see why the Democrats don't want ID required to vote.
Well, if you are going to cite a story, perhaps you be aware of what the researcher cited in that story actually says.
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/stop-citing-our-work-virginia-professor-says-trumps-twisting-his-research-on-non-citizen-voting/
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/author-trumps-favorite-voter-fraud-study-says-everyones-wrong/
Thanks for posting this. It's funny to see him say that he doesn't want his study used like this. What did he expect? Even in his rejection of the use of the study he says
"maybe 14 percent of non-citizens engaged in some type of voting behavior." Seems like a problem that needs fixed, to me.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Maybe, maybe not.
The nature of low order probabilities.
Sounds like you're ready to put money on the line that there is no evidence of voter fraud. Care to put your money where your mouth is?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain