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Lucas starter, Ford tractor?

EhlerDaveEhlerDave Member Posts: 5,158 ✭✭
edited September 2014 in General Discussion
Okay guys I am having a normal day, you know what I mean anything that can go wrong is.

I need my tractor to start, batter was dead, the key has been on for the last 3 months, I am going to blame that on the dog.

I limped my sorry butt outside hooked up the charger last night and let her run. Today I turn the key and she starts cranking over. The problem is it would not stop cranking. I pulled the kill cable so it would not start. I had to raise the hood and break the battery terminal off to stop the starter motor.

I have no idea what went wrong, but to check for bad wiring I took all the wires off the solenoid and left just the battery cable. I just jabbed the terminal in place and jumped the solenoid to see what I got. Same thing it kept cranking until I pulled the cable loose. When I did that I heard the solenoid click and it retracted.

So for those of you who may know and be willing to share with me what am I looking at? Just a bad solenoid or could something in the starter motor cause this, to me I would guess solenoid. It is a 64 Ford tractor, with a 3 cyl diesel and the Lucas starter with solenoid mounted on the top, looks like a chevy starter.

The starter was worked on well over a year ago, the brush holder had broken and I did not have the tools to replace it myself plus busted ribs (funny starter again and cracked sternum) but at that time it got a new solenoid, but by googling this it seems a lot of cheap chinese solenoids are bad from the box. This one has been used just a few times.

I need this up and working fast but MUST fix it myself so any ideas will be tried, well most of them. [8D]

Any help would be greatly appreciated, David.
Just smile and say nothing, let them guess how much you know.

Comments

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    Ditch-RunnerDitch-Runner Member Posts: 24,620 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    my 2 cents I think your on track with the solenoid needing replaced sounds like it stuck
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    KAMsalesKAMsales Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
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    KAMsalesKAMsales Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
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    JunkballerJunkballer Member Posts: 9,190 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kickback spring in the solenoid not releasing [;)]

    "Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee

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    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    You do know why the English like warm beer don't you [?] because they have LUCAS refrigerators .[:0] Lucas the prince of darkness. and to think they made a replacement parts in China. I vote for SOLENOID or the starter gear binding on shaft
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    EhlerDaveEhlerDave Member Posts: 5,158 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the info.

    I will take the solenoid off and see whats up with it, not like I can mess it up. [:D]

    Starter is going to be a load getting it out due to the broken/cracked sternum. One of these days crap will break when I am feeling good. [8D]
    Just smile and say nothing, let them guess how much you know.
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    CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You know why the Brits drink warm beer?



    Lucas can't make a refrigerator that stays cold....
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    woodhogwoodhog Member Posts: 13,115 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    you know why the Brits have no space program? Imagine heading for the moon with Lucas electrics...
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    john wjohn w Member Posts: 4,104
    edited November -1
    I have had starters keep cranking when the voltage in the battery was not high enough. They will crank over but the solanoid will not dissingage when the key is turned off.
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    EhlerDaveEhlerDave Member Posts: 5,158 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by john w
    I have had starters keep cranking when the voltage in the battery was not high enough. They will crank over but the solanoid will not dissingage when the key is turned off.


    As dead as that battery was this could be, if I find nothing that looks "odd" will swap battery and see what happens. I know for sure I am not going to tighten the battery terminal until I see what happens. Those things get hot. [:)]
    Just smile and say nothing, let them guess how much you know.
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    tneff1969tneff1969 Member Posts: 6,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What John W said, charge the battery up or replace it. Went through that with my Case 222, about a month ago. I changed the solenoid,ground, checked the ignition switch etc. A good charge cured the problem, now she stays on a maintainer.
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    Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,372 ******
    edited November -1
    Sounds like a beer problem.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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    EhlerDaveEhlerDave Member Posts: 5,158 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    Sounds like a beer problem.


    Where do I dump the beer? On the starter or the battery? Or just on the hood? [8D]
    Just smile and say nothing, let them guess how much you know.
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,421 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by john w
    I have had starters keep cranking when the voltage in the battery was not high enough. They will crank over but the solanoid will not dissingage when the key is turned off.
    Yep, the starter trying to crank on low voltage causes intense heat in the cables and switches. The heat will weld the solenoid contacts together. I have seen this many times on trucks and equipment. I would replace the solenoid, and charge and load test the battery. If it has been dead for three months, it is very likely junk.
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    LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If the key was left one for a long period of time like you stated.

    The key switch is most likely burned out.

    The only way that the solenoid could have gone bad is it would have had power going to it. If it had power then the engine would have cranked over. Believe that you would have caught that before a month had passed.

    Not knowing the model series of your tractor. You could try a simple two wire push button starter switch to test with. Just run one wire to the battery and the other to the starter solenoid (with the wire from the key switch disconnected) so that when the button is pushed the engine will crank. If it does crank and then stop when you let off of the button. You will know that the key switch is bad.

    If it keeps cranking the solenoid is bad. They are simple to remove from the starter for cleaning, inspecting and lubing. While it is apart. Look closely at the lugs inside of it that the starter and battery wire connect to that the disc contacts when power is applied to the solenoid. If they are showing much wear. You can loosen the nuts that hold them in place and rotate the lugs 180 degrees to give the solenoid a longer service life. I have did this to many Chevy, Jeep and tractor starters to get guys out of a jam and some have lasted for years after rotating the lugs inside of the solenoid.
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    jltrentjltrent Member Posts: 9,219 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    After 50 years on the tractor might want to look into just replacing the whole tractor.
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    EhlerDaveEhlerDave Member Posts: 5,158 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
    If the key was left one for a long period of time like you stated.

    The key switch is most likely burned out.

    The only way that the solenoid could have gone bad is it would have had power going to it. If it had power then the engine would have cranked over. Believe that you would have caught that before a month had passed.

    Not knowing the model series of your tractor. You could try a simple two wire push button starter switch to test with. Just run one wire to the battery and the other to the starter solenoid (with the wire from the key switch disconnected) so that when the button is pushed the engine will crank. If it does crank and then stop when you let off of the button. You will know that the key switch is bad.

    If it keeps cranking the solenoid is bad. They are simple to remove from the starter for cleaning, inspecting and lubing. While it is apart. Look closely at the lugs inside of it that the starter and battery wire connect to that the disc contacts when power is applied to the solenoid. If they are showing much wear. You can loosen the nuts that hold them in place and rotate the lugs 180 degrees to give the solenoid a longer service life. I have did this to many Chevy, Jeep and tractor starters to get guys out of a jam and some have lasted for years after rotating the lugs inside of the solenoid.








    Thanks everyone.

    I pulled the wires off the solenoid and tried jumping it to the hot post, as soon as I did the starter tried to crank and would not stop.

    I would be willing to bet the batter is dead for good. I had charged it and now have nothing. I mean nothing it will not light my test light from post to post.

    I will look in the solenoid and see if it has been damaged, hopefully I can make do with it for now.
    Just smile and say nothing, let them guess how much you know.
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    Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,372 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by EhlerDave
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    Sounds like a beer problem.


    Where do I dump the beer? On the starter or the battery? Or just on the hood? [8D]
    dump the beer? Remind me not to invite you to any parties.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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