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Electrician Question

mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
edited August 2017 in General Discussion
Here's one to get your brain cells jumping early in the morning.

Heating circuit, 220vac, single phase (it's a 3 phase system with 3 heaters, one zone per phase)

Control is via a t-couple to a display/controler with a 0-10vdc output.

The output of the controler is switching 2 75amp SCR's wired in parallel (both the line/load and control are split), power side is protected by a 100amp fuse with a total load of 85 amps.

To detail the wiring configuration, from fuse 1 I'm hitting a junction block and comming off with 2 leads (one to each SCR). From the SCR's I'm hitting a 2nd J-block and comming off that with a single lead to one end of the heater element. The other end of the element goes directly back to fuse 2. From the controler + & -, I'm splitting each and feeding both SCR's with the same signal.

The problem is that just recently, on this one circuit only (I have a total of 9 of these circuits in 3 machines), it's running the entire load through just one SCR. If I disconnect the load side from that SCR, than the 2nd one will carry the entire load (IOW both SCR's are functioning properly). On the other 8 heaters, that are just like this one, each SCR is only handling 43 amps.



Why is just this one set acting this way, and what can I do to correct it?
Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!

Comments

  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Today we had a 3 phase 208 circuit that fried inside the conduit. The 3 phase 208 service feeds a panel that is ALL single 20 amp breakers serving 110 volt lighting, the panel is full and has NO doubles or 208 breakers.

    Therefore NO Motor loads.

    The electrician made a big deal of the need to mark the phases and check the new wires when pulled with a phase meter.

    I asked if since they were all serving single breakers of 110 did it really matter? He dismissed my question and said that if they were the wrong phase it wouldn't work.

    I just don't get that, 208 3 phase L1 to L2 or L3 is 208 but ALL three are 110 to Neutral. Since you have no rotation of any motors how can phase rotation matter in this case other then being the right thing to do.

    Also in a lighting circuit like this one if I understand correctly you should never add a motor to the circuit because it could cause flickering in the lighting circuit?

    Please educate me.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
    edited November -1
    Likely he just wants to ensure the load is balanced across the phases.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • Wild TurkeyWild Turkey Member Posts: 2,425 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Sparkies" keep their hair unkinked by doing things right the first time, every time.

    It might not matter this time, but it might matter the next time, and he might be the one called it to fix things.

    And balancing the phases is always a nice thing to do.[:D]
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Agreed so it doesn't matter in THIS case electrically, as far as balancing the loads if you spread the current draw across the three different phases of 120 regardless of the rotational alignment it is still spread out evenly right?
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • wpageabcwpageabc Member Posts: 8,760 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Load balancing is regarding traffic in circuits and demand needs.

    For lighting you are correct. As far as the panel they have double up breakers now that allow for expansion without adding modules for most boxes.
    "What is truth?'
  • dcon12dcon12 Member Posts: 32,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    On a three phase circuit you have a high leg. So not all three are 120. Don
  • jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 26,277 ******
    edited November -1
    My dog had a high leg this morning after I let him out.
    Seruiously, Electricians are kinda * that way.
    Someone should do a root cause analysis on the failed conductors.
  • themountainmanthemountainman Member Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The electrical code is written in blood. The regulations are there after disastrous consequences. If you don't have confidence in your electrician get another........ Get someone you can trust. your life may depend on it.
    There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those who can do math and those who can't. :?
  • droptopdroptop Member Posts: 8,363 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    Agreed so it doesn't matter in THIS case electrically, as far as balancing the loads if you spread the current draw across the three different phases of 120 regardless of the rotational alignment it is still spread out evenly right?




    A balanced load is highly desired when a facility has 50+ panels and Desired if only one. Balanced loads are especially important when connected directly to generators and every offshore platform has generator sets.

    3 phase 4 wire 208V panels are used in industrial facilities for lighting and receptacles.

    Engineering produces PANEL schedules for their facilities/client. Not much doubt about what is connected where and the load is balanced.

    208V-Power-Panel-Load-Schedule.jpg
  • festusfestus Member Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dcon12
    On a three phase circuit you have a high leg. So not all three are 120. Don

    WYE transformer should all be 120.
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not on all of them, all three of these are 120 to Neutral adn all three read 208 to each other there is no high leg on this Y configuration.

    quote:Originally posted by dcon12
    On a three phase circuit you have a high leg. So not all three are 120. Don
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    From evidence we suspect that condensation has occurred to a large extent in the conduit and in time some of the moisture must have found a pin hole in the wiring or ate through it. Odd that as bad as one leg was it didn't direct short right away. The breaker (100 amp) tripped but no individual breakers. The electrician replaced the 100 amp breaker and it still tripped intermittently.

    Then they megged the wires and found a short so they pulled them (Murderous job) and replaced them.

    Lots of condensation inside the pipe.

    quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
    My dog had a high leg this morning after I let him out.
    Seruiously, Electricians are kinda * that way.
    Someone should do a root cause analysis on the failed conductors.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • WMClarkWMClark Member Posts: 821
    edited November -1
    Delta configured transformers have a high leg.
  • dav1965dav1965 Member Posts: 26,540 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    what size wire were you using and how far was the pull?
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