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lawsuit against remington...any experts here ?
robbie penny
Member Posts: 179 ✭✭✭
http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2009/05/13/news/local/news04.txt
Local News
Darby couple file lawsuit against gun maker
By PERRY BACKUS Ravalli Republic
HAMILTON - A Darby couple are suing Remington Arms after one of the company's rifles allegedly misfired, panicking the man's horses and leaving him with a serious head injury as a result.
Jerry and Jeanette Shook filed suit in U.S. District Court in Missoula.
The Shooks claim the company is negligent because it didn't order a general recall of its Model 700 rifles after customers complained about its propensity to misfire when the safety is disengaged.
Remington replied in court filings that it has offered a safety modification program for pre-1982 Model 700 rifles since 2002. The company said it advertised and notified the public of the program.
The accident happened on a hunting trip on Oct. 31, 2007, in the West Fork of the Bitterroot Range, according to the Shooks' complaint.
Jerry Shook and Steve Burson left their hunting camp on horseback. After riding several miles, Burson dismounted with his Remington 700 Series rifle to hunt on foot while Shook followed behind with the two horses.
When the two met up again, Shook dismounted and stood between the two horses while his friend prepared to unload his rifle to put it into the scabbard on his saddle.
According to court filings, the bolt-action rifle required the rifle to be taken off safety before it was unloaded.
Remington disputes that claim.Burson aimed the rifle into the air in preparation for ejecting the shells in the weapon. When he took the rifle off safety, it fired, the court records said.
The horses immediately spooked. Shook was caught between the two as they came together. He was knocked to the ground as the horses were rearing out of control. One of the horses stepped on Shook's head and his skull was fractured. He was stomped on several more times.
Burson was also knocked to the ground
Local News
Darby couple file lawsuit against gun maker
By PERRY BACKUS Ravalli Republic
HAMILTON - A Darby couple are suing Remington Arms after one of the company's rifles allegedly misfired, panicking the man's horses and leaving him with a serious head injury as a result.
Jerry and Jeanette Shook filed suit in U.S. District Court in Missoula.
The Shooks claim the company is negligent because it didn't order a general recall of its Model 700 rifles after customers complained about its propensity to misfire when the safety is disengaged.
Remington replied in court filings that it has offered a safety modification program for pre-1982 Model 700 rifles since 2002. The company said it advertised and notified the public of the program.
The accident happened on a hunting trip on Oct. 31, 2007, in the West Fork of the Bitterroot Range, according to the Shooks' complaint.
Jerry Shook and Steve Burson left their hunting camp on horseback. After riding several miles, Burson dismounted with his Remington 700 Series rifle to hunt on foot while Shook followed behind with the two horses.
When the two met up again, Shook dismounted and stood between the two horses while his friend prepared to unload his rifle to put it into the scabbard on his saddle.
According to court filings, the bolt-action rifle required the rifle to be taken off safety before it was unloaded.
Remington disputes that claim.Burson aimed the rifle into the air in preparation for ejecting the shells in the weapon. When he took the rifle off safety, it fired, the court records said.
The horses immediately spooked. Shook was caught between the two as they came together. He was knocked to the ground as the horses were rearing out of control. One of the horses stepped on Shook's head and his skull was fractured. He was stomped on several more times.
Burson was also knocked to the ground
Comments
Seriously, isn't the 700's trigger factory set at 5.5 pounds trigger pull? Any modification pisses off Remington.
Might be operator error, might not be, who knows, but I know for a fact that there were at least 3 700's and at least one 788 out there that would fire without touching the trigger and only the safety.
And no, you don't have to take the safety off before unloading a 700.
quote:Originally posted by 35WhelenClassic
I know of three M700's that would fire when you push off the safety. One was a .243, one a .30-06, the third a .270. All three were pre-1982 models, nothing was done to the triggers or safeties by the owners. I've also witnessed a M788 in .308 do the same thing, never heard of a 788 doing that previously.
Might be operator error, might not be, who knows, but I know for a fact that there were at least 3 700's and at least one 788 out there that would fire without touching the trigger and only the safety.
And no, you don't have to take the safety off before unloading a 700.
You better check again. If you fire the gun, you have to eject the shell to put it on safe. So you either load a new round or you push the next round into the magazine so the bolt will slide over them and close empty champer. But you will not bolt that gun on safe. Unless yours is broke.
My gun is a pre-82 model, as well as my dad's 7Mag 700. Neither will bolt on safe.
Seeing as though I've got both 700 Classics right here in front of me, operated them God knows how many times in the past, and operating them before and after what I've just typed, I'm pretty sure I know of what I speak, and no, neither one is broken. Both will bolt while on safe. You go ahead and check again.
Edit: Both are post-1982 models.
Are classics the same as ADL or the BDL? Cause I know for a fact that BDL will not. I am thinking your guns are older and operate differently or we are talking about different models that appear similar.
The Classics are based on the BDL, the .35 Whelen made in 1988, and the Swift in 1992. Both function the same, the only difference being the action length.
Your gun is NOT pre 82.
Hence the reason I pointed that out in my 2nd post, Captain Obvious.[:D]
quote:Originally posted by drjew
That's the reason for the 3 position safety.
Mine doesn't have a 3 position safety, just 2 positions. Out of business and In Business.
Same here, 2 position. Either way, you're not going to tell me what I do and do not know about my own damn rifles, end of subject.
They can be put on the Remington 700's and are available from Brownells and other firearms parts suppliers.
He probably had his finger on the trigger and didn't notice it...
Perhaps you should take a look at the number of times Big Green has LOST in court, when their "Walker" triggers did exactly the same thing. There is a loose chunk floating around in there, and a little dirt/crud will cause it to shift out of place which in turn makes the safety the only thing preventing discharge.
Oh, and my wifes Rem (Mod 7) has a nasty habit of ejecting a chambered round, while being carried with the safety ON.
They have lost one lawsuit that I know of where a teenager shot his dad in the back (jury didn't care that the kid was pointing a loaded rifle at his father, Remington was to blame) for about 6 mil.
Have not had the recall performed but probably should.
I do like the 3-position sfaety of the Win 70 and such.
However, in most cases, if the rifles had been handled properly no one would have been killed or wounded.
It does show that many people do not practice safe muzzle control.
EDIT: I do own several Remington 700 BDL rifles and have never had any issues with them. Mine are also post 82.
His sounds like one of the older models that experienced that issue, and they were recalled if you took the time to ship them back. However,..those older triggers, when adjusted correctly, are on par with some of todays triggers costing $200. My older trigger could be mistaken for a jewell or shilen trigger if you didn't know it was factory.
POINT THE RIFLE AT THE GROUND WHEN EJECTING LIVE ROUND,..NO MATTER WHO MADE IT.
The 700 problem is well documented. My FIL has one that has twice fired when he moved the safety from safe to fire and he wasn't touching the trigger either time.
They have lost one lawsuit that I know of where a teenager shot his dad in the back (jury didn't care that the kid was pointing a loaded rifle at his father, Remington was to blame) for about 6 mil.
I hunt with a guy that has one of these in 6mm
He has never had it happen even before the recall, but even with the recall work done on the rifle he still doesn't trust it.
guns are mechanical and it is not a question of if it will fail but when
They should sue the horse trainer instead.
Or just get off the horse before trying to mess with a firearm
They should sue the horse trainer instead.
A horse trainer? Who the hell uses a trainer? I didn't see where this took place a some horse show.
quote:Originally posted by shootertutor
They should sue the horse trainer instead.
Or just get off the horse before trying to mess with a firearm
"When the two met up again, Shook dismounted and stood between the two horses while his friend prepared to unload his rifle to put it into the scabbard on his saddle."
Pay attention.
you would have thought my three year old gelding had been shot himself, he went from nothing to ninety when the shot went off and made two laps of the pasture before he slowed down.
I can see a discharge between two horses turning into a wreck,
Our horses were safe to shoot around, but it took a bit of training to get them that way. Standard procedure was to dismount, tie up horse, take gun from scabbard, move away from horse about 30 feet, chamber the round.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
My very good friend, because I care about you, if you ever shoot a rifle from, or any where near a horse, that horse first needs to be trained to handle the noise without spooking.
I've spent a little time in the saddle, about 30 years. I couldn't ever afford some show horse or "trained" horse. In fact the best place to take a 4yr old horse is to hunting camp. A lot of country is covered and in most cases, between the bears, gunshots and packing meat on them, you can come out of the mountains with a decent horse. Thats the training I give them. Probably wouldn't enter a parade with them but they would climb a tree for me.
With that, I wont shoot from a horse. All horses are tied up or there is someone holding reins with anticipation of shot. The horses still get fired up but thats part of the experience.
My very good friend.
I reset the adjustable trigger on mine for lighter pull, but did not change the sear engagement. He changed both of his settings.
After I got mine set where I wanted it, I reassembled the rifle and tested the trigger for safety. I put the safety on and hit the butt with a rubber hammer...hard. Then I released the safety and repeated the hit.
The first time I tried that, the striker fell on the second hit. I went back, increased the pull, and repeated the test several times. No problem. The rifle has performed flawlessly since then. By the way, I varished the little set screws to keep them from moving.
My friend did not test his, so as a consequence, the first time we went hunting, he fired a salute when he released the safety for the first time. We fixed that problem quickly.
Bottom line: if you mess with the adjustable trigger on the older 700s, you can make the gun unsafe. From the factory, pretty much impossible.
quote:Originally posted by Zealot
quote:Originally posted by shootertutor
They should sue the horse trainer instead.
Or just get off the horse before trying to mess with a firearm
"When the two met up again, Shook dismounted and stood between the two horses while his friend prepared to unload his rifle to put it into the scabbard on his saddle."
Pay attention.
Got me there, but he shouldn't have been anywhere near a horse while fussing with a firearm
I belive you said this:
"All three were pre-1982 models, nothing was done to the triggers or safeties by the owners".
And then this:
And no, you don't have to take the safety off before unloading a 700.
So you lead me to belive you were saying your guns are pre-82 and you knew for a fact they would bolt on safe. So are they pre 82 and they have had the update performed, or are they post 82 models that never required the update? or do you even know for sure you have a model 700? Is it even a remington? Post a pic, maybe we can help you figure it out.
Both of my 700 Classics are post-1982 (1988 and 1992, that's post 1982 in my book, I bought them both they day they hit the shelves NIB in '88 and '92 respectively) models that never required the update, the three I mentioned earlier (.243, .270, and .30-06)were pre-1982 models. I don't think I could've made it any more clear than that earlier. The two I own now are also not the only two I've ever owned, so I'm not a newbie when it comes to 700's.
I don't need your help, thermonuclear, I know what I have. I'm sorry you think you are the only person alive that knows anything about them.
And yes, I agree, the lawsuit will more than likely be thrown out of court.
quote:Originally posted by 7RiverMan7
quote:Originally posted by Zealot
quote:Originally posted by shootertutor
They should sue the horse trainer instead.
Or just get off the horse before trying to mess with a firearm
"When the two met up again, Shook dismounted and stood between the two horses while his friend prepared to unload his rifle to put it into the scabbard on his saddle."
Pay attention.
Got me there, but he shouldn't have been anywhere near a horse while fussing with a firearm
Any horse will * to a sudden unexpected noise. Whether it happens at 100yrds or right next to them. Granted, all horses are different. Some will just quickly jump away and others will stomp you in the dirt.
I dont see how these guys did anything wrong, just an unfortunate string of mishaps.