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is it the gun, or the cartridge?

mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
edited February 2016 in General Discussion
Read an interesting book the other day that said that the spectacular success of the M2 machine gun is really due to the utility of the .50 BMG round, and not necessarily the design of the gun itself. The book pointed out that Browning had trouble designing the gun because he couldn't find the cartridge he needed for it, but once he examined a German anti-tank rifle round, that gave him the inspiration and away he went.

Certainly it's a good design, but the book pointed out that the cartridge serves a very necessary group of purposes (supreme man-stopper, light anti-armor and excellent unarmored vehicle round, anti-aircraft round, anti-fortification, etc.) that few other weapons can and does so relatively cheaply, and that the cartridge, rather than the design of the gun, is what has made it immortal.

Very interesting.

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    savage170savage170 Member Posts: 37,470 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like to me they go together like bacon and eggs
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    pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have had the opportunity to see how they "saw" a building in two....
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    Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,504 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The M2 is pretty much a scaled up 1919, also an excellent weapon that served for 50+ years with the US, and is still in service in other countries to this day.

    The design, which began with the M1917 in, well 1917, is eternal. When combined with the .50 caliber BMG cartridge, it is immortal.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,449 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    Both the M2, and the Browning 50 cartridge are awesome in their own right. But when the two are combined, that's immortal, as Don pointed out.
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    grdad45grdad45 Member Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hard to improve on perfection. Thank you, John M. Browning!
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,449 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by grdad45
    Hard to improve on perfection. Thank you, John M. Browning!
    Yep!

    M2Poster.jpg
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    MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,649
    edited November -1
    One could not have existed without the other.

    When Ma Deuce shows up at the fight somebody is in deep doo doo.
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    mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    The M2 is pretty much a scaled up 1919, also an excellent weapon that served for 50+ years with the US, and is still in service in other countries to this day.

    The design, which began with the M1917 in, well 1917, is eternal. When combined with the .50 caliber BMG cartridge, it is immortal.


    Well, maybe yes, and maybe no. While it is a great design, the 1919 is no longer used by our armed forces and hasn't been for years. Even in WWII the military realized that the MG34 and MG42 could do things the 1919 couldn't, and to try to fix the problem they made that weird, cumbersome bipod and shoulder stock 1919 that never really worked that well.

    The MG42 is still in use with very minor modifications, and probably will be for the next zillion years. The FN-MAG probably will be as well. The 1919, not so much.

    It's a very good design, but I'm not sure it's a great design.
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