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Insurance Companies and Fireams Coverage
StoBtruppen
Member Posts: 278 ✭
Apparently everyone might want to check their firearms coverage under their homeowners policies being that most of the big name insurance company's including but not limited to: AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers apparently require the insured to list and itemize all firearms collections that are more than $2000-$3000 in total value under theft coverage but not fire or other damage.
This seems un-necessary and irrelevant to me having to list how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number and is somewhat suspicious as they don't require this for jewelry and so which would seem more like a gun control measure.
If the insured has receipts and or some other sort of documented proof then it is really un-necessary and irrelevant and just seems draconian not to mention who is to say that that there aren't crooked insurance company employees or their friends that might be interested in what you have.
The other issue is coverage for loss be it fire, theft or other disaster, make sure that you are happy with how your insurance company handles claims as some are considered to be what is referred to as 'bad faith' insurance companies due to their history of not giving the coverage that was promised in time of need.
Now most everyone will agree that the NRA apparently needs to stay out of politics and I am one of them and prefer for the GOA and SAF for that.
However the NRA's firearms training programs especially for kids is excellent and as is their firearms insurance coverage which is basically a 'no questions asked' type firearms insurance in terms of how many you own or type, make, model, caliber and serial number and their coverage is supposed to be excellent as well and I am for that.
This seems un-necessary and irrelevant to me having to list how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number and is somewhat suspicious as they don't require this for jewelry and so which would seem more like a gun control measure.
If the insured has receipts and or some other sort of documented proof then it is really un-necessary and irrelevant and just seems draconian not to mention who is to say that that there aren't crooked insurance company employees or their friends that might be interested in what you have.
The other issue is coverage for loss be it fire, theft or other disaster, make sure that you are happy with how your insurance company handles claims as some are considered to be what is referred to as 'bad faith' insurance companies due to their history of not giving the coverage that was promised in time of need.
Now most everyone will agree that the NRA apparently needs to stay out of politics and I am one of them and prefer for the GOA and SAF for that.
However the NRA's firearms training programs especially for kids is excellent and as is their firearms insurance coverage which is basically a 'no questions asked' type firearms insurance in terms of how many you own or type, make, model, caliber and serial number and their coverage is supposed to be excellent as well and I am for that.
Comments
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
in a way that it is evident that the guns were in your house. Use a back ground that clearly shows inside your home. Also I put the front page of the local newspaper in the photo. It proves the date photos were taken. Close up shots are not important, but an overall wide pic of the guns in a room that could only be in your house stops all questions the adjuster may throw at you. keep a copy of guns ,pics, serial numbers OFF site. In a fire claim, what good are charred records.
Bob
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
ADDED: Ok, I just spoke with MY State Farm agent. They LIKE to have as much information as possible, however, it is not required and CAN be provided AFTER the loss with reasonable proof.
As a side note, they absolutely DO require appraisals, photos, etc on jewelry. And if there was a serial number on jewelry, they'd probably like that too.
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
ADDED: Ok, I just spoke with MY State Farm agent. They LIKE to have as much information as possible, however, it is not required and CAN be provided AFTER the loss with reasonable proof.
As a side note, they absolutely DO require appraisals, photos, etc on jewelry. And if there was a serial number on jewelry, they'd probably like that too.
The State Farm agent I have now requires it, as did the State Farm agent I had in another state before moving here. The difference could be in the amount of coverage a person needs.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
ADDED: Ok, I just spoke with MY State Farm agent. They LIKE to have as much information as possible, however, it is not required and CAN be provided AFTER the loss with reasonable proof.
As a side note, they absolutely DO require appraisals, photos, etc on jewelry. And if there was a serial number on jewelry, they'd probably like that too.
The State Farm agent I have now requires it, as did the State Farm agent I had in another state before moving here.
Ask them to show you were on the application it asks for that information. If they can't, just tell them that you will provide reasonable proof if you have a loss.
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
For your own sake though I would just ask them directly just to be sure and even have them send you a highlighted copy of the policy listing that information as you don't want any surprises later on.
I was angry when I found that all of the above insurance company's were requiring the same thing, maybe each agent is allowed discernment perhaps to either require it or not, but I don't like that at all and it should at least be uniform.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
ADDED: Ok, I just spoke with MY State Farm agent. They LIKE to have as much information as possible, however, it is not required and CAN be provided AFTER the loss with reasonable proof.
As a side note, they absolutely DO require appraisals, photos, etc on jewelry. And if there was a serial number on jewelry, they'd probably like that too.
The State Farm agent I have now requires it, as did the State Farm agent I had in another state before moving here. The difference could be in the amount of coverage a person needs.
If you are requesting $10,000 of coverage on a single firearm, they sure as heck are going to want proof ahead of time. Same thing with high end jewelry.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
For your own sake though I would just ask them directly just to be sure and even have them send you a highlighted copy of the policy listing that information as you don't want any surprises later on.
I was angry when I found that all of the above insurance company's were requiring the same thing, maybe each agent is allowed discernment perhaps to either require it or not, but I don't like that at all and it should at least be uniform.
Having been in the insurance industry for 10 years, I've read my policy and all endorsements. But like I added to my post, I just called and verified.
If the question is not on the application, tell them that you will supply reasonable proof IF you have a loss. Unless it is a high dollar item, in which case, they may even ask how you are keeping it safe.
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
ADDED: Ok, I just spoke with MY State Farm agent. They LIKE to have as much information as possible, however, it is not required and CAN be provided AFTER the loss with reasonable proof.
As a side note, they absolutely DO require appraisals, photos, etc on jewelry. And if there was a serial number on jewelry, they'd probably like that too.
The State Farm agent I have now requires it, as did the State Farm agent I had in another state before moving here. The difference could be in the amount of coverage a person needs.
If you are requesting $10,000 of coverage on a single firearm, they sure as heck are going to want proof ahead of time. Same thing with high end jewelry.
calrugerfan, I have had State Farm Insurance as my company for most of my adult life, and there is the minimal coverage that comes with the policy, and one does not have to have a single firearm valued at 10K before they want the subject itemized listing either. Call your agent again, and get a definitive answer as to the dollar amount that can be insured before an itemized list is required, because you are waffling on this issue as I see it.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
ADDED: Ok, I just spoke with MY State Farm agent. They LIKE to have as much information as possible, however, it is not required and CAN be provided AFTER the loss with reasonable proof.
As a side note, they absolutely DO require appraisals, photos, etc on jewelry. And if there was a serial number on jewelry, they'd probably like that too.
The State Farm agent I have now requires it, as did the State Farm agent I had in another state before moving here. The difference could be in the amount of coverage a person needs.
If you are requesting $10,000 of coverage on a single firearm, they sure as heck are going to want proof ahead of time. Same thing with high end jewelry.
calrugerfan, I have had State Farm Insurance as my company for most of my adult life, and there is the minimal coverage that comes with the policy, and one does not have to have a single firearm valued at 10K before they want the subject itemized listing either. Call your agent again, and get a definitive answer as to the dollar amount that can be insured before an itemized list is required, because you are waffling on this issue as I see it.
I wasn't saying that $10,000 is the number. I was just using that as an example.
What it comes down to is if the application does not specifically ask for it, your agent is using their own discretion. If that's the case, tell them that you will provide reasonable proof upon loss. If they aren't happy with that, let them know that you will send them a cancellation request as soon as you replace coverage. They will either let you go, or provide you the coverage without the need to supply all the info from the original post.
Any insurance company is silly to think that any serious gun collector, hunter or firearms enthusiast is going to only have $2-3k in total value worth of firearms in a collection.
That is what I am talking about as I understand that 1 firearm over the $2-3k value mark is probably going to have to be itemized and is not the problem here.
Having been in the insurance industry for 10 years, I've read my policy and all endorsements. But like I added to my post, I just called and verified.
If the question is not on the application, tell them that you will supply reasonable proof IF you have a loss. Unless it is a high dollar item, in which case, they may even ask how you are keeping it safe.
How much of an Insurance company's records are accessible to State Insurance Commissioners?
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
Having been in the insurance industry for 10 years, I've read my policy and all endorsements. But like I added to my post, I just called and verified.
If the question is not on the application, tell them that you will supply reasonable proof IF you have a loss. Unless it is a high dollar item, in which case, they may even ask how you are keeping it safe.
How much of an Insurance company's records are accessible to State Insurance Commissioners?
I've never been involved in that aspect of it, however, I do know that insurance companies go through regular audits and polices may be reviewed. If the firearms are listed on the insurance policy, it would not be hard for them to see the information. However, ALL insurance policies are subject to the insurance laws of their respective state. Therefore, even if you get a policy from somebody like the NRA where you don't list specifics, they will know that you have a lot of firearms if you have $30K of coverage.
You're only options to hide the info is to either not insure them, or find a policy that does not have a sub-limit for firearms and include the value in your personal property coverage (I don't know of any policies that don't have a firearm sub-limit).
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by StoBtruppen
Yeah and that is exactly what I thought too until I asked them that directly several times and they all pretty much said the same thing to my surprise. Firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the companies policy) for theft coverage(not fire or other damage) must show how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model and caliber.
Correct, but you only have to list your firearms after a loss, not when requesting coverage.
Yes it is required when requesting coverage, as I was told by AllState, State Farm, USAA and Farmers that in order to get coverage for theft(however not required for fire or other damage) for firearms collections with a total value over $2000-$3000(depending on the company's policy)that the insurance company requires how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number.
My State Farm agent didn't require it. But then again, I didn't go through the whole process because State Farm's policy is $2,500 each/$5,000 aggregate (total) and I don't have more than $5,000 in firearms and nothing over $2,500.
ADDED: Ok, I just spoke with MY State Farm agent. They LIKE to have as much information as possible, however, it is not required and CAN be provided AFTER the loss with reasonable proof.
As a side note, they absolutely DO require appraisals, photos, etc on jewelry. And if there was a serial number on jewelry, they'd probably like that too.
The State Farm agent I have now requires it, as did the State Farm agent I had in another state before moving here. The difference could be in the amount of coverage a person needs.
If you are requesting $10,000 of coverage on a single firearm, they sure as heck are going to want proof ahead of time. Same thing with high end jewelry.
calrugerfan, I have had State Farm Insurance as my company for most of my adult life, and there is the minimal coverage that comes with the policy, and one does not have to have a single firearm valued at 10K before they want the subject itemized listing either. Call your agent again, and get a definitive answer as to the dollar amount that can be insured before an itemized list is required, because you are waffling on this issue as I see it.
I wasn't saying that $10,000 is the number. I was just using that as an example.
What it comes down to is if the application does not specifically ask for it, your agent is using their own discretion. If that's the case, tell them that you will provide reasonable proof upon loss. If they aren't happy with that, let them know that you will send them a cancellation request as soon as you replace coverage. They will either let you go, or provide you the coverage without the need to supply all the info from the original post.
Now we are getting somewhere with the "discretion" bit. Now, if you want to find out whether or not "your" State Farm Insurance agent will require you to have an itemized list, call them and tell them that you want to insure your firearm collection for $100,000.00 and see how quick they tell you to present them with an itemized list. Once you find out the skinny here, then you tell them you will be sending them a cancellation in the near future due to their discretionary, BS.
Now we are getting somewhere with the "discretion" bit. Now, if you want to find out whether or not "your" State Farm Insurance agent will require you to have an itemized list, call them and tell them that you want to insure your firearm collection for $100,000.00 and see how quick they tell you to present them with an itemized list. Once you find out the skinny here, then you tell them you will be sending them a cancellation in the near future due to their discretionary, BS.
Kimi, you'd be amazed what you can get from somebody working on commission when they think that they might lose money. Now if it's required by the company, there isn't much that you can do. Think about this though. Can you insure a vehicle without telling them the year, make, model, and VIN?
quote:Originally posted by kimi
Now we are getting somewhere with the "discretion" bit. Now, if you want to find out whether or not "your" State Farm Insurance agent will require you to have an itemized list, call them and tell them that you want to insure your firearm collection for $100,000.00 and see how quick they tell you to present them with an itemized list. Once you find out the skinny here, then you tell them you will be sending them a cancellation in the near future due to their discretionary, BS.
Kimi, you'd be amazed what you can get from somebody working on commission when they think that they might lose money. Now if it's required by the company, there isn't much that you can do. Think about this though. Can you insure a vehicle without telling them the year, make, model, and VIN?
We are communicating now as regards the typical insurance agency, in regards to some leeway. The owner of the agency has "some" room to maneuver as to the information that must be provided and the format used to make the list they require, and this is the standard by which their employees must meet when writing policies. I know, I have been there on two occasions with State Farm on this same issue, and they require an itemized list, which may vary a bit as previously noted, but it still represents what make and model of firearms that you have along with the values that you appraise them at. As far as exceptions go, they are not likely to make one for the typical insured person, nor for most people who might believe the owner to be their friend.
And the NRA insurance policy seems to be the only firearms insurance that doesn't require the typical how many firearms are owned including the type, make, model, caliber and serial number for initial setup of a firearms insurance policy.
watch out, When I had a loss over $2000 in firearms alone, I was told "no one has that many guns without being in business" and did not pay till I got a lawyer.
Care to name the company so as to help other people steer clear from these crooks?
You need to have a special rider for more coverage.
quote:Originally posted by SWAT 50
watch out, When I had a loss over $2000 in firearms alone, I was told "no one has that many guns without being in business" and did not pay till I got a lawyer.
Care to name the company so as to help other people steer clear from these crooks?
Hell that was 20 years ago, it was NOT a named brand co. it was a cut rate independent Ins. co. I may be able to look it up. but as yet They havent found 1 gun.
http://www.collectinsure.com/
And is there a limit to how many that you can own or a single firearm value amount limit or entire firearms collection value amount limit?
What is the deductible for a fire, theft, disaster loss and can you also claim for a damaged firearm say from dropping it for example?
Hmm, NRA insurance while good seems expensive compared to that although I wonder how good the other firearms insurers are with paying for a loss?
watch out, When I had a loss over $2000 in firearms alone, I was told "no one has that many guns without being in business" and did not pay till I got a lawyer.
That sucks because I buy $2000 at most gunshows.
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by SWAT 50
watch out, When I had a loss over $2000 in firearms alone, I was told "no one has that many guns without being in business" and did not pay till I got a lawyer.
Care to name the company so as to help other people steer clear from these crooks?
Hell that was 20 years ago, it was NOT a named brand co. it was a cut rate independent Ins. co. I may be able to look it up. but as yet They havent found 1 gun.
[:)] oh, okay, thanks.