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Best Allied Prop driven fighter of WW2

Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,254 ✭✭✭✭
edited March 2014 in General Discussion
Ok I stirred the pot with MC 205 on the Axis side so now I present my pick as he best Allied fighter of WW2: The Chance Vought F4U Corsair. It started out with some pain and problems but once they were worked out IMNSHO it evolved into the best over all fighter of WW2.

General characteristics

Crew: 1 pilot
Length: 33 ft 8 in (10.2 m)
Wingspan: 41 ft 0 in (12.5 m)
WS Folded: 17 ft 0.5 in (5.2 m)
Height: 14 ft 9 in (4.50 m)
Empty weight: 9,205 lb (4,174 kg)
Loaded weight: 12,405 lb (5,626 kg)
Powerplant: 1 x Pratt & Whitney R-2800-18W radial engine, 2,325 hp (1,710 kW)

Performance

Maximum speed: 453 mph (395 kn, 731 km/h)
Range: 897 mi (602 nmi (1,115 km))
Service ceiling: 41,500ft (12,649 m)
Rate of climb: 3,870ft/min (19.7 m/s)

Armament

Guns:
6 x 0.50 in (12.7 mm) AN/M2 Browning machine guns, 400 rpg or
4 x 0.79 in (20 mm) M2 cannon





800px-Vought_F4U_Corsair_%28USMC%29.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F4U_Corsair
RLTW

Comments

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    RobOzRobOz Member Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Robert Conrad sure could fly the Corsair.
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    RobOzRobOz Member Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The P51 is my favorite plane.
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    NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 16,661 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It'd be hard to decide between the P-51, the F-4U, and the Spitfire Supermarine.
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    utbrowningmanutbrowningman Member Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
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    grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466
    edited November -1
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    Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,254 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by NeoBlackdog
    It'd be hard to decide between the P-51, the F-4U, and the Spitfire Supermarine.


    You cannot forget the Yak-9. It was a very good fighter

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-9
    RLTW

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    nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    Best or most capable?

    Navy most capable... Sort of Navy anyway. Corsair
    Navy best... Wildcat

    Army most capable... Probably the Lightning
    Army best... I'd argue the Thunderbolt

    Let's remember that we were fighting two wars in very different locations and circumstances. The attributes of any one plane didn't necessarily transfer between theaters.

    Corsair was spectacular. Wildcat carried the water with a kill count second to none.

    Lightning was the star. She had the looks and performance to attract a lot of attention, but she was delicate.

    Thunderbolt was big and looked like a milk jug. But she could perform nearly as well as the Lightning up high and was unequaled in close ground support. And she was tough. Built like a tank! My late father always sung the praises of the P-47 as a flight of them would cut a German column to ribbons in front of his unit on a fairly regular basis.

    England... Spit and Hurricane. Spit the glamor girl and Hurk the workhorse. And it was the Hurricane that won the Battle of Britain. Just look at the kill record.
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    fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    For plain old get U back after some kicking serious *,"THE JUG"...
    For getting there fast bustin' serious * and getting back to base,The "P-51".
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    mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nord
    Best or most capable?

    Navy most capable... Sort of Navy anyway. Corsair
    Navy best... Wildcat

    Army most capable... Probably the Lightning
    Army best... I'd argue the Thunderbolt

    Let's remember that we were fighting two wars in very different locations and circumstances. The attributes of any one plane didn't necessarily transfer between theaters.

    Corsair was spectacular. Wildcat carried the water with a kill count second to none.

    Lightning was the star. She had the looks and performance to attract a lot of attention, but she was delicate.

    Thunderbolt was big and looked like a milk jug. But she could perform nearly as well as the Lightning up high and was unequaled in close ground support. And she was tough. Built like a tank! My late father always sung the praises of the P-47 as a flight of them would cut a German column to ribbons in front of his unit on a fairly regular basis.

    England... Spit and Hurricane. Spit the glamor girl and Hurk the workhorse. And it was the Hurricane that won the Battle of Britain. Just look at the kill record.



    Do you mean the Wildcat or the Hellcat? The Wildcat was quickly ditched for the Hellcat and widely acknowledged to be inferior to the Zero. The simple fact that it was ditched would seem to suggest that something better needed to be found.
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    gary wraygary wray Member Posts: 4,663
    edited November -1
    I agree with the Big Fat One....head of the Luftwaffe...when he saw the Mustangs flying over Berlin with the B17's knew the airwar was over. Just can't beat the Brit Merlin with that great American airframe. The Hellcat in the Pacific wasn't anything to sneeze at also. And the Luftwaffe feared the Yak 9 and rightly so....but the Mustang wins the contest IMO.
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    SGSG Member Posts: 7,548
    edited November -1
    Here's some numbers I copied from a ww2 aviation forum.These are enemy aircraft,fighters and bombers,shot down by allied aircraft and broke down by theater of operation.
    Pacific Theater (includes Aleutians, Central Pacific, South Pacific and Southwest Pacific operating areas):

    F6F = 5,221
    F4U/FG = 2,155
    P-38 = 1,700
    F4F/FM-1/FM-2 = 1,408
    P-47 = 697
    P-40 = 661
    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 297
    P-39/P-400 = 288
    P-61 = 64
    PV = 20
    F2A = 10
    P-36 = 3
    P-70 = 2
    P-26 = 2
    P-35 = 1

    European Theater:

    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 4,239
    P-47 = 2,686
    P-38 = 497
    P-61 = 59
    Spitfire = 15
    F6F = 8
    Beaufighter = 6
    P-39/P-400 = 3
    F4F = 2

    Mediterranean Theater:

    P-38 = 1,431
    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 1,063
    P-40 = 592
    Spitfire = 364
    P-47 = 263 = Fifth Place
    F4F = 26
    Beaufighter = 25
    P-39/P-400 = 25
    Mosquito = 1

    China-Burma-India Theater, including the AVG:

    P-40 = 741
    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 345
    P-38 = 157
    P-47 = 16
    P-39/P-400 = 5
    P-61 = 5
    P-43 = 3

    Overall against European opponents

    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 5,302
    P-47 = 2,949
    P-38 = 1,928
    P-40 = 592
    Spitfire = 379
    P-61 = 59
    Beaufighter = 31
    P-39/P-400 = 28
    F4F/FM-2 = 28
    F6F = 8
    Mosquito = 1

    Overall against the Japanese

    F6F = 5,221
    F4U = 2,155
    P-38 = 1,857
    F4F/FM-2 = 1,408
    P-40 = 1,402
    P-47 = 713
    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 642
    P-39/P-400 = 293
    P-61 = 69
    PV = 11
    F2A = 10
    P-43 = 6
    P-36 = 3
    P-26 = 2
    P-70 = 2
    P-35 = 1

    Add them all together:

    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 5,944 = 1st Place
    F6F = 5,229 = 2nd Place
    P-38 = 3,785 = 3rd Place
    P-47 = 3,662 = 4th Place
    F4U = 2,155 = 5th Place
    P-40 = 1,994 = 6th Place
    F4F/FM-2 = 1,436 = 7th Place
    Spitfire = 379 = 8th Place
    P-39/P-400 = 321 = 9th Place
    P-61 = 128 = 10th Place
    Beaufighter = 31 = 11th Place
    PV = 20 = 12th Place
    F2A = 10 = 13th Place
    P-43 = 6 = 14th Place
    P-36 = 3 = 15th Place
    P-26 = 2 = 16th Place tied
    P-70 = 2 = 16th Place tied
    P-35 = 1 = 17th Place tied
    Mosquito = 1 = 17th Place tied
  • Options
    gary wraygary wray Member Posts: 4,663
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SG
    Here's some numbers I copied from a ww2 aviation forum.These are enemy aircraft,fighters and bombers,shot down by allied aircraft and broke down by theater of operation.
    Pacific Theater (includes Aleutians, Central Pacific, South Pacific and Southwest Pacific operating areas):

    F6F = 5,221
    F4U/FG = 2,155
    P-38 = 1,700
    F4F/FM-1/FM-2 = 1,408
    P-47 = 697
    P-40 = 661
    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 297
    P-39/P-400 = 288
    P-61 = 64
    PV = 20
    F2A = 10
    P-36 = 3
    P-70 = 2
    P-26 = 2
    P-35 = 1

    European Theater:

    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 4,239
    P-47 = 2,686
    P-38 = 497
    P-61 = 59
    Spitfire = 15
    F6F = 8
    Beaufighter = 6
    P-39/P-400 = 3
    F4F = 2

    Mediterranean Theater:

    P-38 = 1,431
    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 1,063
    P-40 = 592
    Spitfire = 364
    P-47 = 263 = Fifth Place
    F4F = 26
    Beaufighter = 25
    P-39/P-400 = 25
    Mosquito = 1

    China-Burma-India Theater, including the AVG:

    P-40 = 741
    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 345
    P-38 = 157
    P-47 = 16
    P-39/P-400 = 5
    P-61 = 5
    P-43 = 3

    Overall against European opponents

    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 5,302
    P-47 = 2,949
    P-38 = 1,928
    P-40 = 592
    Spitfire = 379
    P-61 = 59
    Beaufighter = 31
    P-39/P-400 = 28
    F4F/FM-2 = 28
    F6F = 8
    Mosquito = 1

    Overall against the Japanese

    F6F = 5,221
    F4U = 2,155
    P-38 = 1,857
    F4F/FM-2 = 1,408
    P-40 = 1,402
    P-47 = 713
    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 642
    P-39/P-400 = 293
    P-61 = 69
    PV = 11
    F2A = 10
    P-43 = 6
    P-36 = 3
    P-26 = 2
    P-70 = 2
    P-35 = 1

    Add them all together:

    P-51/A-36/F-6 = 5,944 = 1st Place
    F6F = 5,229 = 2nd Place
    P-38 = 3,785 = 3rd Place
    P-47 = 3,662 = 4th Place
    F4U = 2,155 = 5th Place
    P-40 = 1,994 = 6th Place
    F4F/FM-2 = 1,436 = 7th Place
    Spitfire = 379 = 8th Place
    P-39/P-400 = 321 = 9th Place
    P-61 = 128 = 10th Place
    Beaufighter = 31 = 11th Place
    PV = 20 = 12th Place
    F2A = 10 = 13th Place
    P-43 = 6 = 14th Place
    P-36 = 3 = 15th Place
    P-26 = 2 = 16th Place tied
    P-70 = 2 = 16th Place tied
    P-35 = 1 = 17th Place tied
    Mosquito = 1 = 17th Place tied


    SG....don't want to question your numbers....but the Spit numbers look a bit (lot) low to me and NO Hurricane numbers at all????The Hurricane didn't shoot down any planes? Tell that to the Hurricane pilots in the Battle of Britain. But, like I said....Mustang @1 and F6F #2. Case closed[;)]
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    retroxler58retroxler58 Member Posts: 32,693 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    While IMHO that P-51 out flies anything that fly in it's time...

    I jus'LOVE... The P-38. [;)]
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    pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 8th Air Force Bomber Command(B-17, B-24) shot down more Axis planes than any of the fighter pilots.
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    kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hellcat, spitfire, mustang, one of those three I think.
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    Mk 19Mk 19 Member Posts: 8,170
    edited November -1
    P-38 for the Pacific, no question, Look at what aircraft was flown by the top American aces of the war, the top 2 (Bong & McGuire) were both Lighting pilots
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    Missouri Mule K30Missouri Mule K30 Member Posts: 2,092 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Its too bad that most of the U.S. aircraft did not serve in all theaters of the war. Its hard to nail down just one, so I will divide into two: with the European theater, Best all around fighter, P47, but the war winner P51. The Pacific theater, will be the F6F, with an Honorable Mention F4U
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    CbtEngr01CbtEngr01 Member Posts: 4,340
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by RobOz
    The P51 is my favorite plane.


    +1
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    WulfmannWulfmann Member Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Spitfire shot down 15 planes and the Hurricane none, well, there seems to have been a lot of German engine failures in the fall of 1940.

    Every plane was compared to one. The Spitfire

    Nothing was as easy to fly and learn to fly quickly to a high level of combat capability like the Spitfire (and the Hurricane)

    One thing the Spit could not do was distance. It was basically a defensive fighter in that it could not carry the fight into Germany and the P51 could.

    BTW the first 262 shot down was by a Spitfire.

    The Hurricane was actually the main fighter in BoB and was an excellent plane, easy to fly. It was not able to be updated like the Spitfire so was all but second string by mid war.
    Early on it was effective against the 109E4 and was the primary fighter in Africa and Malta as well as in Greece.

    When I started to do combat flight sim work I had my pre-favorite planes like the Corsair, P51 and FW190A.
    Once I had thousands of sim hours in; the plane I somehow never cared for, the Spitfire, became my favorite plane in regards to its combat capabilities.
    But, what a general comparison does not figure is the operation requirement.
    What is the mission? That changes what is best because you need the right tool and good or even best head to head can be meaningless if it can't accomplish the job.

    Wulfmann
    3YUCmbB.jpg
    "Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
    Otto von Bismarck
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    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,202 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    None of us will ever get anything BUT sim hours in any of the aircraft we're discussing. On the other hand, I was a qualified AF fighter pilot, and I have 800 hours of combat time logged over 300 missions. Have been shot at. A lot.

    If I were a strapping fighter pilot in WWII and was offered the choice of a P-51 or a P-47, I'd have gone for the Jug, hands down. But I'd have secretly lusted for a Spit. Still do, in fact.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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    Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,254 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:BTW the first 262 shot down was by a Spitfire.

    Actually the credit for the 1st downing of a Me262 goes to a Soviet Yak-9
    RLTW

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    WulfmannWulfmann Member Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    None of us will ever get anything BUT sim hours in any of the aircraft we're discussing. On the other hand, I was a qualified AF fighter pilot, and I have 800 hours of combat time logged over 300 missions. Have been shot at. A lot.

    If I were a strapping fighter pilot in WWII and was offered the choice of a P-51 or a P-47, I'd have gone for the Jug, hands down. But I'd have secretly lusted for a Spit. Still do, in fact.


    The 51 was the better fighter but I might also have chosen the p47 or as a kraut the FW190A. No radiators the weak link in any water cooled prop.

    Erich Hartmann used to sneak up on his opponent and get so close he only needed a brief burst into the enemy's radiator. He knew the less ammo required in any engagement meant more opportunity for kills per mission.

    I have never read a Yak9 shot down a 262 let alone the first one considering they were primarily used in the west.
    Hard to really know what happened as all sides were better at BS than documentation.

    Wulfmann
    3YUCmbB.jpg
    "Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
    Otto von Bismarck
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    partisanpartisan Member Posts: 6,414
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sam06
    Ok I stirred the pot with MC 205 on the Axis side so now I present my pick as he best Allied fighter of WW2: The Chance Vought F4U Corsair. It started out with some pain and problems but once they were worked out IMNSHO it evolved into the best over all fighter of WW2.

    General characteristics

    Crew: 1 pilot
    Length: 33 ft 8 in (10.2 m)
    Wingspan: 41 ft 0 in (12.5 m)
    WS Folded: 17 ft 0.5 in (5.2 m)
    Height: 14 ft 9 in (4.50 m)
    Empty weight: 9,205 lb (4,174 kg)
    Loaded weight: 12,405 lb (5,626 kg)
    Powerplant: 1 x Pratt & Whitney R-2800-18W radial engine, 2,325 hp (1,710 kW)

    Performance

    Maximum speed: 453 mph (395 kn, 731 km/h)
    Range: 897 mi (602 nmi (1,115 km))
    Service ceiling: 41,500ft (12,649 m)
    Rate of climb: 3,870ft/min (19.7 m/s)

    Armament

    Guns:
    6 x 0.50 in (12.7 mm) AN/M2 Browning machine guns, 400 rpg or
    4 x 0.79 in (20 mm) M2 cannon





    800px-Vought_F4U_Corsair_%28USMC%29.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F4U_Corsair






    +1 all the way on this plane.
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    grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    None of us will ever get anything BUT sim hours in any of the aircraft we're discussing. On the other hand, I was a qualified AF fighter pilot, and I have 800 hours of combat time logged over 300 missions. Have been shot at. A lot.

    If I were a strapping fighter pilot in WWII and was offered the choice of a P-51 or a P-47, I'd have gone for the Jug, hands down. But I'd have secretly lusted for a Spit. Still do, in fact.


    The JUG had more armor right. Way harder to shoot down.
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    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,202 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yup, more cockpit armor. And the engine was less vulnerable to killing damage, also. The P-51 had a radiator and an oil cooler down in that belly scoop - both highly vulnerable. One hit there and you were going down in a very short time.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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    discusdaddiscusdad Member Posts: 11,419 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    what would be the ratio of enemy kills vs combat losses for the 47 51 and hellcat?
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    BHAVINBHAVIN Member Posts: 3,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    F4U Corsair. What a beauty!
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    pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BHAVIN
    F4U Corsair. What a beauty!
    Do you know why the Corsair was a inverted gull wing?[:o)]
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    discusdaddiscusdad Member Posts: 11,419 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ya, because the prop diameter was so big they had to raise it so it wouldn't smack the deck.
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