Can someone explain this about SSI?

Doc

My friend worked for years at various jobs always having SSI deducted from his pay. They he went into public school teaching for 30 years. As a teacher he didn't pay into SSI but had a separate retirement plan.

So when he retired, he was told by Social Security that because he was a teacher he would get reduced benefits from the SSI he had paid in. He is not getting full benefits based on the amount he paid in before going into teaching. I don't get this. Because he has a retirement plan that didn't involve SSI he doesn't get the full amount he deserves based on what he paid previously? Can someone explain this?

Don McManus

https://faq.ssa.gov/link/portal/34011/34019/Article/3738/Will-you-lower-my-Social-Security-benefits-if-I-get-a-pension-from-work-not-covered-by-Social-Security


Q: Will you lower my Social Security benefits if I get a pension from work not covered by Social Security?


A: When you get a pension from work not covered by Social Security, we may figure your Social Security benefits using a different formula. This lowers your Social Security benefit. We do this whether your pension comes from work you did for a U.S. government agency or in a foreign country.

ChrisStreett

The program is referred to as "windfall elimination". I too have worked since my early teens and always paid into this Ponzi scheme. Even with the BPD (pension plan) I always worked 2nd jobs to keep my "quarters" paid up. Regardless, if I live long enough to qualify for SS any benefit, as it stands now, would be reduced by approx 40%. Nice huh? And I watch the oxygen thieves line up every day and tell all in earshot how they're disabled (read too fat, drug problem, etc) and receive an SSI check every month for their little "problem"...among the myriad of other programs they suck the system dry with. Angry? Me? Nah. If most folks could only see where the money that's extorted from them every payday goes the story might be a little different.

Doc

So they can just cheat you out of what you paid for because they simply decide to do it? Somebody has SSI deducted from their pay for years or decades then changes jobs and no longer pays SSI and that means the government can screw them? There must be many people affected by this rule so I wonder if it's ever been challenged in court?

EhlerDave

SSI (Supplemental Security Income) is for those who never worked or did not work long enough to earn the credits required for SS. They sure do the best they can, to screw the ones who paid into the system.

ChrisStreett

They call them reduced benefits or whatever fancy term is on their tongue at the time. Regardless, you aren't getting what you were told was coming. It's total BS good luck moving that bureaucracy. Once again we're supposed to just bend over and be happy about it. Yeah, ok.

EhlerDave

quote:Originally posted by ChrisStreett
The program is referred to as "windfall elimination". I too have worked since my early teens and always paid into this Ponzi scheme. Even with the BPD (pension plan) I always worked 2nd jobs to keep my "quarters" paid up. Regardless, if I live long enough to qualify for SS any benefit, as it stands now, would be reduced by approx 40%. Nice huh? And I watch the oxygen thieves line up every day and tell all in earshot how they're disabled (read too fat, drug problem, etc) and receive an SSI check every month for their little "problem"...among the myriad of other programs they suck the system dry with. Angry? Me? Nah. If most folks could only see where the money that's extorted from them every payday goes the story might be a little different.


They now can at least force those folks off, if they choose. The I am to fat to work, to drunk, or am addicted to drugs, of any kind has a catch now. If the Dr they see tells them of a treatment plan to correct the problem and they refuse they can have the monthly check stopped. I have yet to hear of this being done in my area but it needs to be done with any treatable disability. Being fat should not mean a free lifetime ride.

bpost

He was a freeloader on the public dole (payroll) for decades and now you want him to get money he paid into the SSI system, are you daft man?

Illegals NEED that money for SSDI claims and anchor babies..

mark christian

A long time ago some clever folks figured out that if you work for ten years and get your forty quarters you are now covered by SS. They then went off to work for the public sector and earned a second pension and double-dipped. Congress figured this out and did two things: First, SS takes your entire covered earnings, adjusts it for inflation (that three bucks an hour you earned back in 1977 is worth a lot more than that now) and DIVIDED the total earnings amount by 35 years. If you worked for ten covered years and earned (say) $250,000 adjusted, then your yearly income (divided by 35) is actually about $7100 per year. That's what your SS check will be based on. If that weren't enough, they give you an earnings test. If you have a yearly pension income above (I believe) $16000, then for every $2 you earn over that limit, you'll lose $1 of SS benefits.

Rip off? Sure, but the system is broken so why not fix it on the backs of the folks who paid into it?

CaptFun

My grandfather told me when I was very young at every opportunity he could not to plan on SS. If you get it great, if not, have a plan B....

select-fire

Suppose to run out by 2033. That means in real terms around 2020 .

He Dog

quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
My grandfather told me when I was very young at every opportunity he could not to plan on SS. If you get it great, if not, have a plan B....


That was always my plan too. Nice gun money while it lasts.[^]

Rack Ops

Mark nailed it.

Social Security benefits are on a sliding scale.....meaning someone who earns less over the course of their working life gets a proportionally higher benefit than someone who has earned more.

Under the old system, your friend would be paid as if he was a long term low wage earner....and he'd draw his full public-sector pension. That's cheating the system....not "getting what you deserve"


Incidentally, the windfall elimination provision can be reduced or eliminated by having enough quarters of Social Security-covered earnings.

FrancF

I have always wondered if anyone has ever tried to legally collect full lifetime contributions at retirement in a lump sum
.

mark christian

quote:Originally posted by FrancF
I have always wondered if anyone has ever tried to legally collect full lifetime contributions at retirement in a lump sum
.


You can defer filing for SS and gain up to six months in one lump sum payment, you can also suspend you benefits for a specific period of time and have the amounts you miss receiving sent to you in a lump sum.

The concept of a complete refund of all contributions on demand doesn't apply because SS is NOT a defined benefit pension plan. In fact, it is not a pension plan at all. It is a Retirement Insurance Benefits program and legally defined as an old age insurance benefit and not as a pension.

Doc

That's what SS told my friend, if he got full benefit for what he paid plus his other pension he was "double dipping." I don't see how. Sure he gets two checks, but both should be for what he paid into the system, not arbitrarily reduced. They made it sound like he was doing something wrong by expecting his full benefit. AFAIC THEY are wrong.

But THEY are the federal government...and resistance is futile.

wpage

Welfare is nice pay nothing and score big...

Rack Ops

Everyone just wants "what I paid in"

But if they want to file for disability.....well, then they want a hell of a lot more.

1911a1-fan

I see elderly folks every week, paid in their entire life and get max 720 a month, some only 560

now if your 18 and in perfect health and ability to work, you can still get a link card for 200 a month


in 86 me and my bil got into a head on collision while riding a motorcycle, his hip was shattered and he was crippled and bed ridden for 4 years, he got 1,100 a month disability , they said he would never walk again, he over came it and was able to work, one side hangs down several inches {think surgery and pins in 1986}, his spine is curved and walks like a crippled penguin , hes now 55 and cannot work any longer due to the years of working and now has a curved spine and is a chronic pain sufferer , guess what ? he has been denied ssi , they said he does not have enough credits paid in

mlincoln

http://educationnext.org/arent-teachers-covered-social-security/

Alpine

quote:Originally posted by Doc
My friend worked for years at various jobs always having SSI deducted from his pay. They he went into public school teaching for 30 years. As a teacher he didn't pay into SSI but had a separate retirement plan.

So when he retired, he was told by Social Security that because he was a teacher he would get reduced benefits from the SSI he had paid in. He is not getting full benefits based on the amount he paid in before going into teaching. I don't get this. Because he has a retirement plan that didn't involve SSI he doesn't get the full amount he deserves based on what he paid previously? Can someone explain this?



Welcome to the WEP program!

booter_one

In reality, he is probably getting more with the secondary pension versus along with his lowered SSI had he continued to work in the private sector and pay into the SSI plan. Most State/County/City pension plans are better funded and invested than the SSI slush fund anyway.

shilowar

redistribution of wealth at its finest

Mobuck

"So when he retired, he was told by Social Security that because he was a teacher he would get reduced benefits from the SSI he had paid in."
My folks were encouraged to pay some significant amounts into SSI the last few years before Dad retired by their "financial adviser". Mom has some SSI built up from working during her younger years and Dad was CSRS. When Dad retired, they found that was not the case. When Dad died, Mom found she'd only get $40-50 per month of her SSI because she was getting CSRS annuity.
I don't have much use for SSA. They're a worthless entity that makes their own rules while shafting real working folks. My blind Son drew some assistance while he was going to college and later SSA tried to take it back when some government computer running SS numbers found his # on savings bonds I didn't even know existed(Mom had bought them and they were held in her "trust" by my somewhat unscrupulous half brother). Later, after Son was married, SSA tried to garnish his wife's wages to recover the funds. I'll never draw a dime from SSI since my only full time job was CSRS but I'm still paying into SSI on every paycheck with my current part-time job. They're stealing money from me every month.

JnRockwall

quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
My grandfather told me when I was very young at every opportunity he could not to plan on SS. If you get it great, if not, have a plan B....


True. I treat SS as a lost income. I dont have anything in my retirement based on SS. If I get anything, God willing, it will be spending money. Not something I will have to depend on.

Alpine

quote:Originally posted by Mobuck
"So when he retired, he was told by Social Security that because he was a teacher he would get reduced benefits from the SSI he had paid in."
My folks were encouraged to pay some significant amounts into SSI the last few years before Dad retired by their "financial adviser". Mom has some SSI built up from working during her younger years and Dad was CSRS. When Dad retired, they found that was not the case. When Dad died, Mom found she'd only get $40-50 per month of her SSI because she was getting CSRS annuity.
I don't have much use for SSA. They're a worthless entity that makes their own rules while shafting real working folks. My blind Son drew some assistance while he was going to college and later SSA tried to take it back when some government computer running SS numbers found his # on savings bonds I didn't even know existed(Mom had bought them and they were held in her "trust" by my somewhat unscrupulous half brother). Later, after Son was married, SSA tried to garnish his wife's wages to recover the funds. I'll never draw a dime from SSI since my only full time job was CSRS but I'm still paying into SSI on every paycheck with my current part-time job. They're stealing money from me every month.


If that's all they are stealing from you, you are getting off light.

They are stealing from me at a rate of $400 a month.

mogley98

It is true that Social Security was never designed to be a replacement for saving for retirement.
However the old days of working for a company thirty or forty years and getting an actual pension are gone. Companies found out they could increase profits greatly by eliminating them.

I worked with HCA when the company eliminated the retirement plan. To make up for it they increased the match on 401K investments. Brilliant move!

HCA made a fortune doing this, because they knew that many of the people getting money in their retirement plan would not contribute to the 401K and even if they did they would not contribute up to the maximum for the match replacement. The numbers are staggering.

Companies used to pay for healthcare and blame ACA all you want but way prior to ACA companies were shifting the cost of retirement and healthcare back to the employees without fully or sometimes even partially funding that shift.

Oddly enough the best pensions/healthcare plans are most often paid for by the tax payers who no longer have them.

I know changes will be made to the Social Security/medicare/caid system it is just a matter of time and voters, the Feds know they can't mess with the oldest group but the latest boomers are toast.

Toolman286

This is also the case for "Notch Babies," who because of the year they were born, receive a lower payment. This was to "save" SSI & is now screwing the people who paid into the program vs. leeches.
http://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/notch.pdf
http://seniorsleague.org/2011/notch-bulletin-how-long-have-notch-babies-been-underpaid/