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N.J. State Police/ Sig Sauer Law Suit

milesmiles Member Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 2017 in General Discussion
Seems that N.J. spent over 2.5 million on Sig pistols that jam and Sig can't fix so N.J. fixed the problem by buying the troopers Glocks and filing suit against Sig Sauer.

Have to wonder if this issue could cause the Government to re-think it's decision on choosing Sig pistols for the military side arm.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/05/nj_state_police_sue_manufacturer_over_jammed_guns.html

To add insult to injury,
http://taskandpurpose.com/sig-sauer-p320-steyr-arms/
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Comments

  • roswellnativeroswellnative Member Posts: 10,195 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And the winner is...
    Although always described as a cowboy, Roswellnative generally acts as a righter of wrongs or bodyguard of some sort, where he excels thanks to his resourcefulness and incredible gun prowesses.
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  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry, I have too many questions before I decide who's at fault here.

    Sigs have been used by military & police for many years, & this is the first problem of this type I have read about.

    Was this a custom model? What ammo is being used? What is the exact failure rate? What does Sig say that the problem is?

    I'm not a Glock hater, but .... I have never heard of an LEO shooting himself in the foot with a Sig while holstering his gun.

    Neal
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  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,244 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was issued a M11 (Sig 228) on my second tour in Afghanistan and I was not impressed. I liked the M9 better. I would have much rather had a Glock.

    The Sig and the Beretta are just too hard to detail strip and clean. Sand and crap gets down in the action and you basically have to wash them to get them clean.

    SIGs are nice pistols but I am not impressed.

    My opinion is open over the 320 because I have not shot or handled one but I am anxious to see how they do.
    RLTW

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  • ChrisStreettChrisStreett Member Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The articles I read showed extensive testing both by the NJSP and Sig, separately and jointly. The results, unfortunately, seemed to parallel each other. It's a damn shame but consistent failures over a long period really indicated major issues with the weapons. Not going to hype one brand over another but I'll stick with what I carry now. I was involved in testing our current carry guns (Not Sig) from when they first came out many years back and believe me we tried everything to create issues but they worked well. I hope Sig gets their act together but in the meantime I'll trust my life to that which I have confidence in.
    "...dying ain't much of a living boy"-Josey Wales
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  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was surprised to read the model was the 229. Those have been a le work horse for years. I wonder what they changed in their design in this current model. That is a scathing allegation, Pretty embarrassing for Sig. Can't wait to post it on the Sig FB page and watch them stroke. Replaced by Glock...Tee he's

    BTW I love my 229 in .40
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  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 40,233 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by roswellnative
    And the winner is...
    Not the taxpayers......
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  • remingtonoaksremingtonoaks Member Posts: 26,245 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by roswellnative
    And the winner is...
    Not the taxpayers......


    Yep right, it will be the lawyers
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  • Ricci WrightRicci Wright Member Posts: 8,259 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm guessing the devil is in the details here. No way in hell can Sig not make 229 series guns that run. Our N.C. Highway Patrol carries 229's and they love them. The Coast Guard went to 229's years ago and I haven't heard of any problems. We have a lot of Coastys shooting here with us and the only complaint I hear is concerning the DAK trigger. Everybody wants a 2 ounce trigger.[:)]. There is something strange here that we may or may not ever know. Either the NJ SP is doing something wrong or maybe Sig tried to cut corners as we have seen Remington do the last few years.The important thing is the Troopers get a gun they can depend on and of course Glock will fill that requirement magnificently. [:)][:o)][}:)]
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  • txlawdogtxlawdog Member Posts: 10,039 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wonder if it has to do with the NJ requirements for magazine disconnect safety? I recently bought a 220 that I had to take that device off the gun. It was not difficult, but I just wonder what the issue was. I have two 229's and they are fine guns!
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  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Ricci Wright
    I'm guessing the devil is in the details here. No way in hell can Sig not make 229 series guns that run. Our N.C. Highway Patrol carries 229's and they love them. The Coast Guard went to 229's years ago and I haven't heard of any problems. We have a lot of Coastys shooting here with us and the only complaint I hear is concerning the DAK trigger. Everybody wants a 2 ounce trigger.[:)]. There is something strange here that we may or may not ever know. Either the NJ SP is doing something wrong or maybe Sig tried to cut corners as we have seen Remington do the last few years.The important thing is the Troopers get a gun they can depend on and of course Glock will fill that requirement magnificently. [:)][:o)][}:)]


    Did you read the actual lawsuit? It is specific as to the issues, and failed attempts at remedies.
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  • chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 14,115 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Sorry, I have too many questions before I decide who's at fault here.

    Sigs have been used by military & police for many years, & this is the first problem of this type I have read about.

    Was this a custom model? What ammo is being used? What is the exact failure rate? What does Sig say that the problem is?

    I'm not a Glock hater, but .... I have never heard of an LEO shooting himself in the foot with a Sig while holstering his gun.

    Neal



    Concur, I smell a rat and there are plenty in NJ, especially in government.

    I have been around SIGs for many years and am having extreme difficulty remembering any problems with these fine pistols
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  • drobsdrobs Member Posts: 22,620 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Seems they had 2 models of 229's. The Elite model and the Legacy model.
    Both had failures to extract.

    Here's the actual lawsuit:
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726840-NJ-State-Police-Sig-Sauer-lawsuit.html

    I've heard US made Sigs just aren't on par with the West German guns.
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  • Ricci WrightRicci Wright Member Posts: 8,259 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No Bro I had not read that. Thanks for pointing it out. Sounds like Sig really dropped the ball. Makes you wonder who makes these decisions. Remington 870 or 700 the best a few years ago but now?
    Maybe not. Now Sig's reputation has been damaged and that's hard to fix. Twenty years from now it will still be brought up in conversations in gun shops. We had the same here with Beretta .357 Sig pistols our troopers bought. Damn things just would not work.
    They tried S&W M&P's but they broke too with the beating that cartridge puts out. Our boys really like the .357 sig but they have never sold here at the store.The Sig 229's they have now seem to be working well. Anyway thank's again for pointing that out.quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by Ricci Wright
    I'm guessing the devil is in the details here. No way in hell can Sig not make 229 series guns that run. Our N.C. Highway Patrol carries 229's and they love them. The Coast Guard went to 229's years ago and I haven't heard of any problems. We have a lot of Coastys shooting here with us and the only complaint I hear is concerning the DAK trigger. Everybody wants a 2 ounce trigger.[:)]. There is something strange here that we may or may not ever know. Either the NJ SP is doing something wrong or maybe Sig tried to cut corners as we have seen Remington do the last few years.The important thing is the Troopers get a gun they can depend on and of course Glock will fill that requirement magnificently. [:)][:o)][}:)]


    Did you read the actual lawsuit? It is specific as to the issues, and failed attempts at remedies.
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  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is ok, the folks on the Sig FB page have determined that this just can not be and has to the cheap ammo being used by the NJSP. All is well, nothing to see here. [;)]
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  • Smitty500magSmitty500mag Member Posts: 13,623 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The NJSP gave them plenty of opportunities to correct the problem. Sig first blamed it on the barrel coating which I don't see how that had anything to do with ejection of spent casings? Then they blamed it on the springs and then back to blaming it on the barrels and then back to replacing springs. Then they were wanting to do something else was when NJSP cut off communication and sued them. I would have done it a lot sooner.
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  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 60,240 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Sorry, I have too many questions before I decide who's at fault here.

    Sigs have been used by military & police for many years, & this is the first problem of this type I have read about.

    Was this a custom model? What ammo is being used? What is the exact failure rate? What does Sig say that the problem is?

    I'm not a Glock hater, but .... I have never heard of an LEO shooting himself in the foot with a Sig while holstering his gun.

    Neal
    +1000
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