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Trump: 'Why was there the War of Northern Aggression ?

kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
edited May 2017 in General Discussion
Trump: 'Why was there the War of Northern Aggression ? Why could that one not have been worked out?'

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/05/01/trump-why-was-there-the-civil-war-why-could-that-one-not-have/22063593/
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Comments

  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wonder of Trump thinks it would have been as easy as health care?
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    I wonder of Trump thinks it would have been as easy as health care?




    Who was the last president that mouthed these words? The fascist democrats and like establishment republicans will probably have a field day with this. Hell, the typical liberal nutcase will go ape...!
    What's next?
  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,244 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All he has to do is walk down to the Lincoln memorial and see the reason.

    Then he needs to go up on the roof of the white house and take a good look around.
    RLTW

  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    I wonder of Trump thinks it would have been as easy as health care?




    Who was the last president that mouthed these words? The fascist democrats and like establishment republicans will probably have a field day with this. Hell, the typical liberal nutcase will go ape...!


    I doubt there are 10 members of Congress amongst the 535 that would even give a minute publically considering that one possibility of 'working out' the problem was the co-existence of the United Stats of America and the Confederate States of America.

    The war has been stripped of all meaning over the past decades by those you cite, kimi, and I really doubt the American people as a whole are even open to thinking differently.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • jerrywh818jerrywh818 Member Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The problem of slavery was thrust upon us by the English, Spanish and the French.
  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
    The problem of slavery was thrust upon us by the English, Spanish and the French.

    Don't forget the Native Americans. They had slaves long before any of our forefathers arrived.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    I wonder of Trump thinks it would have been as easy as health care?




    Who was the last president that mouthed these words? The fascist democrats and like establishment republicans will probably have a field day with this. Hell, the typical liberal nutcase will go ape...!


    I doubt there are 10 members of Congress amongst the 535 that would even give a minute publically considering that one possibility of 'working out' the problem was the co-existence of the United Stats of America and the Confederate States of America.

    The war has been stripped of all meaning over the past decades by those you cite, kimi, and I really doubt the American people as a whole are even open to thinking differently.




    Good point, and maybe none of them would even echo his sentiments. That's why we made the man president...he talks in public like a typical, intelligent, level headed individual about subjects that would get certain people fired from their job, or labeled as white supremacists, or supporters of same, in their community. Freedom of speech is silenced by the media and employers, and that's just for starters. Mum's the word in their little world.
    What's next?
  • BrookwoodBrookwood Member, Moderator Posts: 13,768 ******
    edited November -1
    Pretty sure that the way things are going,
    our future looks to be torn apart in very similar ways between the Demo-libs and the working conservatives!

    Our President is just having moments of dasia vue! pardon my spelling of that last word!
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Brookwood
    Pretty sure that the way things are going,
    our future looks to be torn apart in very similar ways between the Demo-libs and the working conservatives!

    Our President is just having moments of dasia vue! pardon my spelling of that last word!


    Like I told a dear friend the other day regarding multiculturalism. We are at war on many fronts. Defeating the enemies within starts with cultivating young minds. The Internet has been a God send to all inquiring minds.
    What's next?
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840
    quote:Originally posted by fideau
    quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
    The problem of slavery was thrust upon us by the English, Spanish and the French.

    Don't forget the Native Americans. They had slaves long before any of our forefathers arrived.


    and it was well known to the negro african tribes as they enslaved their captured brothers and were the ones who also sold their 'brothers' into slavery for others.




    It is equally well known that no one from Britain, Spain, France, Native American Tribes or African Tribes forced on white Colonial or U.S. Citizen to purchase a slave.

    If someone makes something available for purchase, and one has a choice whether to make that purchase or not make that purchase it is a little misleading to suggest that purchase is 'thrust' upon that person.

    Thousands upon thousands of poor whites worked the cotton fields a paid laborers, many alongside enslaved blacks. Profit margins were not as high for producers that had to use paid labor, but it was still profitable.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • BrookwoodBrookwood Member, Moderator Posts: 13,768 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by us55840
    quote:Originally posted by fideau
    quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
    The problem of slavery was thrust upon us by the English, Spanish and the French.

    Don't forget the Native Americans. They had slaves long before any of our forefathers arrived.


    and it was well known to the negro african tribes as they enslaved their captured brothers and were the ones who also sold their 'brothers' into slavery for others.




    It is equally well known that no one from Britain, Spain, France, Native American Tribes or African Tribes forced on white Colonial or U.S. Citizen to purchase a slave.

    If someone makes something available for purchase, and one has a choice whether to make that purchase or not make that purchase it is a little misleading to suggest that purchase is 'thrust' upon that person.

    Thousands upon thousands of poor whites worked the cotton fields a paid laborers, many alongside enslaved blacks. Profit margins were not as high for producers that had to use paid labor, but it was still profitable.


    I do agree with you Don, but just remember that there were some pretty slick SALESMEN back in the day just as there are now![;)]
  • gunnut505gunnut505 Member Posts: 10,290
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by us55840
    quote:Originally posted by fideau
    quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
    The problem of slavery was thrust upon us by the English, Spanish and the French.

    Don't forget the Native Americans. They had slaves long before any of our forefathers arrived.


    and it was well known to the negro african tribes as they enslaved their captured brothers and were the ones who also sold their 'brothers' into slavery for others.




    It is equally well known that no one from Britain, Spain, France, Native American Tribes or African Tribes forced on white Colonial or U.S. Citizen to purchase a slave.

    If someone makes something available for purchase, and one has a choice whether to make that purchase or not make that purchase it is a little misleading to suggest that purchase is 'thrust' upon that person.

    Thousands upon thousands of poor whites worked the cotton fields a paid laborers, many alongside enslaved blacks. Profit margins were not as high for producers that had to use paid labor, but it was still profitable.


    The old," Everybody did it, they're all equally to blame" line has been dragged out so many times; it has lost whatever equalization it had.
    Those "poor Whites" included thousands of Irish, who when brought here under indentured servitude, were treated no better than slaves. Or sent to fight Southerners who were defending their way of life from assaults by Northerners.
    The Irish were simply trying to eat.
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,052 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i don,t know if poor white worker were realy more costly than negro,s, the negro,s had to be paid for and then fed-housed and taken care of. it may have been that negro,s were more available in a general sense and were kept on the plantations and could not take a day or week off when ever they felt like it. and then there is the breeding of the negro,s that would have produced more negro,s pretty cheap. and the negro labor force made farming profitable for alot of plantations that would not have made it with out the negro work force. the war was a terrible thing for the nation, no matter what side you were on. and with the advent of new farm machinery, i think slavery would have died out on its own weight as being to costly to keep large groups of negro,s for labor. mr myopic.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    as enlightning as the proper usage of the internet might be i wonder how much of that can be diminished by the dubious quality of our public school and college systems......
  • kissgoodnightkissgoodnight Member Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sam06
    All he has to do is walk down to the Lincoln memorial and see the reason.

    Then he needs to go up on the roof of the white house and take a good look around.
    http://dailyheadlines.com/history-forgotten-honest-abe-lincoln-ordered-largest-mass-hanging-in-american-history/

    You should look up info on the War of Northern Aggression . Oh wait you can't it is gone now. You cannot trust history books printed before 1960.
    Lincoln illegally imprisoned senators without trial for refusing to support the war.
    The all White people in the South lost the right to vote for 20 years.
    In the march to the sea all homes, many towns and crops were burned. Men were murdered and women raped and some murdered.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kissgoodnight
    quote:Originally posted by Sam06
    All he has to do is walk down to the Lincoln memorial and see the reason.

    Then he needs to go up on the roof of the white house and take a good look around.
    http://dailyheadlines.com/history-forgotten-honest-abe-lincoln-ordered-largest-mass-hanging-in-american-history/

    You should look up info on the War of Northern Aggression . Oh wait you can't it is gone now. You cannot trust history books printed before 1960.
    Lincoln illegally imprisoned senators without trial for refusing to support the war.
    The all White people in the South lost the right to vote for 20 years.
    In the march to the sea all homes, many towns and crops were burned. Men were murdered and women raped and some murdered.


    Sherman was a complex and very interesting character. While he did launch a purposeful psychological campaign against the civilian population of Georgia, South Carolina and to a lessor degree North Carolina, the murder of civilians and rape of white women were rare exceptions and not the norm, and were certainly not sanctioned by him or his command. Not sure what history books you consider trustworthy, but I would surmise that some of them you have read have painted this application of total war with too dark a brush.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • remingtonoaksremingtonoaks Member Posts: 26,245 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I call the War of Northern Aggression , the War of Northern Aggression to End all Southern unconstitutional activities" not the "the War of Northern Aggression "
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    England ended slavery without killing 620,000 people.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wonder if Hannity is gutsy enough to attack the progressive fascist punks that Trump has put on the skyline...and run with it! We'll find out soon enough. Go for it Sean...let's continue to paint a picture of the enemy within for all to see.
    What's next?
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840
    quote:Originally posted by fideau
    quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
    The problem of slavery was thrust upon us by the English, Spanish and the French.

    Don't forget the Native Americans. They had slaves long before any of our forefathers arrived.


    and it was well known to the negro african tribes as they enslaved their captured brothers and were the ones who also sold SELL their 'brothers' into slavery for others.




    It is still occurring to this day.
  • truthfultruthful Member Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lincoln wanted a war. If not, why didn't he even TRY to negotiate? Why did he refuse to meet with confederate delegates who came to Washington to talk with him?
  • mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
    The problem of slavery was thrust upon us by the English, Spanish and the French.


    Indeed! And my large waistline is totally the fault of Wendy's, McDonald's, and Krispy Kreme! I had nothing to do with it!!!
  • remingtonoaksremingtonoaks Member Posts: 26,245 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mlincoln
    quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
    The problem of slavery was thrust upon us by the English, Spanish and the French.


    Indeed! And my large waistline is totally the fault of Wendy's, McDonald's, and Krispy Kreme! I had nothing to do with it!!!


    And my handsome looks and Adonis body is not my fault. It was put there by God. Oh wait, it was God who give me my good looks and body.... Thank you God [:D]
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840

    The the War of Northern Aggression happened...ain't no changing it. The north and south fought it out and the north won.

    Calling it the 'war of northern aggression' is how history in changed thru autosensors and liberals...IMO.




    The south has always called it The War of Northern Aggression...nothing new there.
    What's next?
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maxine Waters and the Black Caucus are going to have fun with this...plus the NAACP and the other racist organizations, not to mention the fascist liberals that infest our colleges.!!!!! Funny stuff, I tell you. But! We need the conversation...we need it, I tell you!
    What's next?
  • wpageabcwpageabc Member Posts: 8,760 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Since we do now have the internet. Folks can now post whatever they believe or want to put out there. Old and new history books are edited and published by folks with thier own agenda at the time...

    How information is processed by individuals true or false is what make the world go round and round.
    "What is truth?'
  • dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,179 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, "what ifs" are fun so long as we take them for what they're worth.

    Let's suppose President Jackson came along in 1860 rather than Lincoln. Let's further suppose that Jackson, a slave holding President, was inclined to end the expansion of slavery to newly admitted states. That, and not whether slavery should be abolished where it existed in 1860 was the concern, yes? Because with free states being admitted the southern slave holding states knew they'd eventually be outvoted and whether in 5 years, 10 years slavery in the south would be forced to fade away.

    Just as firmly as Lincoln, Jackson opposed secession, as South Carolina learned about 1832 or so IIRC.

    Jackson wasn't subtle about anything, would he have rushed in federal troops to immediately squash SC? Would being a slave holding southern President have given him greater sway over southerners, in similar fashion that LBJ had with southern Democrats in the 1960's in a way Kennedy could not?

    Would Jackson have held the union together and slavery existed another 20, 30 years or so? Would southern economics have changed over time and made slavery no longer profitable?

    People make history. It seems reasonable to me that if you change the players you can change history.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    quote:Originally posted by us55840

    The the War of Northern Aggression happened...ain't no changing it. The north and south fought it out and the north won.

    Calling it the 'war of northern aggression' is how history in changed thru autosensors and liberals...IMO.




    The south has always called it The War of Northern Aggression...nothing new there.


    That does not change the facts of the matter.

    I've NEVER heard it called that until the GB autosensor made the changes here.

    And I've spent a fair amount of time in the southern states and met/visited with many from the south. This is the ONLY place I've every heard it referred to as such.
    What's next?
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Amazing.


    [:I]
    What's next?
  • jerrywh818jerrywh818 Member Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "it is equally well known that no one from Britain, Spain, France, Native American Tribes or African Tribes forced on white Colonial or U.S. Citizen to purchase a slave." Don McManus.
    Well your not exactly correct about that Don. A lot of people inherited slaves and it was against the law to set them free. Thomas Jefferson was one of them. The first slave owner in the colonies outside of the American Indians was a black man.
    As far as the name of the war goes, I lived in Georgia for 11 years and married a Georgia girl. I never hear it called the war of northern aggression until GB did it's self editing. Frankly it is somewhat insulting. I do not think the War was the answer to the problem but changing the name of it for somebodies political agenda is Liberal crap.
    It was what it was no matter what anybody's personal opinion is.
    I believe things could have been worked out better. Jefferson had the best idea ever. Look it up. There still is slavery some places.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    Originally posted by jerrywh818
    "it is equally well known that no one from Britain, Spain, France, Native American Tribes or African Tribes forced on white Colonial or U.S. Citizen to purchase a slave." Don McManus.
    Well your not exactly correct about that Don. A lot of people inherited slaves and it was against the law to set them free. Thomas Jefferson was one of them. The first slave owner in the colonies outside of the American Indians was a black man.
    As far as the name of the war goes, I lived in Georgia for 11 years and married a Georgia girl. I never hear it called the war of northern aggression until GB did it's self editing. Frankly it is somewhat insulting. I do not think the War was the answer to the problem but changing the name of it for somebodies political agenda is Liberal crap.
    It was what it was no matter what anybody's personal opinion is.
    I believe things could have been worked out better. Jefferson had the best idea ever. Look it up. There still is slavery some places.
    [/quot


    South Carolina paid some of its Revolutionary war debt to its soldiers in slaves.

    Use of the description War of Northern Aggression has been in print for most of my life, for certain and was fairly common among southerners.
    What's next?
  • CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
    as enlightning as the proper usage of the internet might be i wonder how much of that can be diminished by the dubious quality of our public school and college systems......

    From the playground of my elementary school we could see Fort Sumter. We routinely found Mini? balls there in the marsh. We learned the real history and how the Industrial North attempted to and did eventually suppress the agrarian South. It was not about slavery it was about States Rights and economics.
  • jerrywh818jerrywh818 Member Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had two Great Great grandfathers in the war on the side of the North. One was killed at Antietam in 1862. I have 52 hand written letters from him and the chaplain who was with him when he died. There is not one mention of Slavery in any of the letters. Here is news for some of you. There were a lot of slaves who never wanted to be free.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ms. MANZO: Maybe not that specifically, but I know that in textbooks, even up until the, you know, middle of the last century, the War of Northern Aggression was referred to as the War of Northern Aggression in many states. And many of those Southern states took a state textbook adoption approach so that they could have control over what was in the textbooks. So historically, there has been a lot of policy and regulation to make sure that a certain point of view was represented, certain cultural tradition was represented.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124737756
    What's next?
  • randomnutrandomnut Member Posts: 942 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
    quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
    as enlightning as the proper usage of the internet might be i wonder how much of that can be diminished by the dubious quality of our public school and college systems......

    From the playground of my elementary school we could see Fort Sumter. We routinely found Mini? balls there in the marsh. We learned the real history and how the Industrial North attempted to and did eventually suppress the agrarian South. It was not about slavery it was about States Rights and economics.




    Thank you!!!! The war had absolutely nothing to do with slavery, just an excuse for Lincoln.

    Slavery gave Lincoln the war he was looking for at the time, to piss on the south for saying FU.

    I imagine if Lincoln lived and died today, many Republicans would say "Good riddance".
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,052 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i read some where that lincoln freed the slavers to clog the roads to retard the southern armies movements in the field and to intice negro,s to enter the union army. mr myopic.
  • mjrfd99mjrfd99 Member Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by eastbank
    i read some where that lincoln freed the slavers to clog the roads to retard the southern armies movements in the field and to intice negro,s to enter the union army. mr myopic.

    It was ALL about freeing the black man- well that's the demonrat BS agenda that's been hammered into less than intelligent heads for decades.
    So how'd that work out for ya? Like this?
    http://heyjackass.com/
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
    Well, "what ifs" are fun so long as we take them for what they're worth.

    Let's suppose President Jackson came along in 1860 rather than Lincoln. Let's further suppose that Jackson, a slave holding President, was inclined to end the expansion of slavery to newly admitted states. That, and not whether slavery should be abolished where it existed in 1860 was the concern, yes? Because with free states being admitted the southern slave holding states knew they'd eventually be outvoted and whether in 5 years, 10 years slavery in the south would be forced to fade away.

    Just as firmly as Lincoln, Jackson opposed secession, as South Carolina learned about 1832 or so IIRC.

    Jackson wasn't subtle about anything, would he have rushed in federal troops to immediately squash SC? Would being a slave holding southern President have given him greater sway over southerners, in similar fashion that LBJ had with southern Democrats in the 1960's in a way Kennedy could not?

    Would Jackson have held the union together and slavery existed another 20, 30 years or so? Would southern economics have changed over time and made slavery no longer profitable?

    People make history. It seems reasonable to me that if you change the players you can change history.


    I agree. When I was growing up in Texas we were taught the legitimate reasons for the war...about eight of them as I recall, and it was part of 7th grade social studies. I do not know what it is like in Texas today or what it has been like there since my time, but it is readily apparent that what gets in the national news today represents total ignorance about the subject. In fact, according to the news, the war was about slavery, and slavery related topics, only.

    In reality, there are some schools, but mighty few I'd think, even in the most anti-traditional locales such as the Seattle area, that do a fairly good job of teaching the reasons the southern states seceded from the union. There was one near me here in the NW that hit the news a couple of years ago for doing a very good job of it, but some second class citizen complained and I seriously doubt their curriculum survives to this day. Additionally, the Navy JROTC program textbooks addressed this subject, but not in the depth that I would like to have seen. This level of curriculum was taught by the senior instructor, and the ones that I worked for and with, did a good job of driving the states rights and economics issue home for the kids.

    What we need to do is get away from the attitude that prevails today and teach "all" of the legitimate reasons why the south seceded, rather than focusing so much on the evil south and the whipping, and hanging of slaves, and the reparations kick.
    What's next?
  • jev1969jev1969 Member Posts: 2,691
    edited November -1
    Some will say the war was fought over States rights. Others will say it was fought over slavery. Who is right? Imagine a homeowner puts a flag in his front yard. His home owners association says it isn't allowed. So the homeowner says I'm not paying my dues then. In the ensuing lawsuit the HOA will say it's about dues, the homeowner will say it's about a flag. Who's right? Both answers are correct. LEOs should be able to appreciate this. How many pairs of witnesses have you interviewed that were both telling the truth but contradicted one another?
  • jev1969jev1969 Member Posts: 2,691
    edited November -1
    BTW - I've been gone a while. It's been a rough 12 months but I'm back. Stand by for witty responses sprinkled with snark.
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