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A. West (Marines Pissing) 'Shut Your Mouth..."
drobs
Member Posts: 22,620 ✭✭✭✭
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html
Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.
"I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
"All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
"The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
"As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell."
I agree.
Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.
"I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
"All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
"The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
"As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell."
I agree.
Comments
quote:"The Marines were right on. Give them a minimum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of comendation in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, while being pinned with a medal for valor each personally praise God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter."
the idiot who video taped this event and posted it to youtub is the one who should be punished, the history of our troops "desecrating" the dead bodies of their enemy has been done ever since the first ever war, when i first joined the U.S.Navy in 1955ad there were many WWII vets, their stories of what they done to dead and some live Japs were far more "atrocious" than this pissing event.
those Marines should NOT be punished beyond their CO's N.J.P., which would be a slap on the hand and told to never be caught doing this again, if so you will be discharged with a B.C.D. !!!!!
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html
Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.
"I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
"All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
"The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
"As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell."
I agree.
It's wonderful when we do our damnedest to win the race to the bottom.
Of course, I'm sure it's totally lost on a great many folks here that this is the sort of "moral relativism" that they railed against in the past...
I find a lot to agree with here.
I agree...bravo
Of course, I'm sure it's totally lost on a great many folks here that this is the sort of "moral relativism" that they railed against in the past...
When you hire a roofing contractor, you don't check to make sure he has clean fingernails before you sign a contract. You can't expect perfect manners and ettiquette from Marines who are trained and tasked to kill terrorists.
War is hell. Of this there is no dispute. Further, it's said that war brings out both the best and worst in mankind. Some of the most noble acts ever undertaken by man are done in the hell of war. So too the most despicable acts.
In this case there is no honor amongst warriors. No quarter is expected from the enemy and they give none. And it's somehow a sin for our boys to urinate on their bodies? Hell, if that's all they do it's not much!
Somehow we forget that we're fighting primitive men bent on imposing a political system (not a religion) upon the world and plunging us back into what amounts to a feudal system. They have only one rule and that's that they win. They have no care nor mercy for man, woman, child, or animal.
And we punish our fighting men for urinating on these disgusting pieces of vulture bait? Give me a break!
I believe like JamesRK in that it's pretty close. However, his remark which tells all civilians to shut the hell up unless they have been shot at by the Taliban is way off the mark. Such a remark is in lock step with the neo-con progressive, holier than thou attitude regarding arrogance of the first order, that the likes of John McCain and Lindsey Graham and Company are known to spew. The Colonel works for the civilian populace, and at a minimum, their views should be treated with respect. That said, I think he aimed such remarks at the likes of OBama and Hillary Clinton, but if that's the case, he shied away from calling a spade a spade, so to speak.
Hear-hear. And, ahem, we can't call a spade a spade anymore, not PC.
Clouder..
quote:Originally posted by kimi
I believe like JamesRK in that it's pretty close. However, his remark which tells all civilians to shut the hell up unless they have been shot at by the Taliban is way off the mark. Such a remark is in lock step with the neo-con progressive, holier than thou attitude regarding arrogance of the first order, that the likes of John McCain and Lindsey Graham and Company are known to spew. The Colonel works for the civilian populace, and at a minimum, their views should be treated with respect. That said, I think he aimed such remarks at the likes of OBama and Hillary Clinton, but if that's the case, he shied away from calling a spade a spade, so to speak.
Hear-hear. And, ahem, we can't call a spade a spade anymore, not PC.
Clouder..
[:D] You know what I meant clouder! [:D] Trying to get me in throuble early in the morning are ya?! v[:D]
Double entendre?
I didn' know there was a definition for it! [:D] But I only meant in in the respectable sense! [8)]
quote:Originally posted by v35
Double entendre?
I didn' know there was a definition for it! [:D] But I only meant in in the respectable sense! [8)]
[:0][:D][:p]
quote:It's wonderful when we do our damnedest to win the race to the bottom.
Of course, I'm sure it's totally lost on a great many folks here that this is the sort of "moral relativism" that they railed against in the past...
When you hire a roofing contractor, you don't check to make sure he has clean fingernails before you sign a contract. You can't expect perfect manners and ettiquette from Marines who are trained and tasked to kill terrorists.
Can you expect discipline? I did not know, by your line of thinking, that the armed forces and especially the Marines have a sort of "try to do your best but we understand if you slip up" mentality.
How interesting that all these Marines are no longer in Afghanistan now that all of this has come out. So once they're out the door and safe out comes a video that will further inflame the masses and make the jobs of those replacing them even more difficult and dangerous. Semper Fi indeed.
Can you expect discipline? I did not know, by your line of thinking, that the armed forces and especially the Marines have a sort of "try to do your best but we understand if you slip up" mentality.
How interesting that all these Marines are no longer in Afghanistan now that all of this has come out. So once they're out the door and safe out comes a video that will further inflame the masses and make the jobs of those replacing them even more difficult and dangerous. Semper Fi indeed.
I'm sick of our fear of "inflaming the masses". We're either at war or we're not. All the evidence I've seen lately says we're not. If we're not at war we don't need troops in the Middle East. Either go to war or get out.
Do you seriously think the masses who support the murder of three thousand innocents in New York City, not to mention the other atrocities, can be "inflamed"?
When these people hear we don't want to "inflame" them, they read that as fear. To them fear is a thing to be exploited.
I wouldn't do what these Marines did, but I won't condemn them for it. Having done it I'd never apologize. I might ask God for forgiveness but no apology.
They have to face discipline for what they did, but an apology shouldn't be part of the deal.
quote:Originally posted by mlincoln
Can you expect discipline? I did not know, by your line of thinking, that the armed forces and especially the Marines have a sort of "try to do your best but we understand if you slip up" mentality.
How interesting that all these Marines are no longer in Afghanistan now that all of this has come out. So once they're out the door and safe out comes a video that will further inflame the masses and make the jobs of those replacing them even more difficult and dangerous. Semper Fi indeed.
I'm sick of our fear of "inflaming the masses". We're either at war or we're not. All the evidence I've seen lately says we're not. If we're not at war we don't need troops in the Middle East. Either go to war or get out.
Do you seriously think the masses who support the murder of three thousand innocents in New York City, not to mention the other atrocities, can be "inflamed"?
When these people hear we don't want to "inflame" them, they read that as fear. To them fear is a thing to be exploited.
I wouldn't do what these Marines did, but I won't condemn them for it. Having done it I'd never apologize. I might ask God for forgiveness but no apology.
They have to face discipline for what they did, but an apology shouldn't be part of the deal.
Great post James![;)]
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by v35
Double entendre?
I didn' know there was a definition for it! [:D] But I only meant in in the respectable sense! [8)]
[:0][:D][:p]
[:D]
We all wanted to NUKE the whole country. After 8 years l still feel the SAME [^]
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html
Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.
"I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
"All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
"The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
"As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell."
I agree.
Me too. Nuff said.
Can you expect discipline? I did not know, by your line of thinking, that the armed forces and especially the Marines have a sort of "try to do your best but we understand if you slip up" mentality.
How interesting that all these Marines are no longer in Afghanistan now that all of this has come out. So once they're out the door and safe out comes a video that will further inflame the masses and make the jobs of those replacing them even more difficult and dangerous. Semper Fi indeed.
Oh yeah, you can ask for discipline, but you shouldn't expect perfection in a combat zone.
Case in point is American Sniper, Chris Kyle with the most kills ever: 150. If you read his book you see that he worked in the margins of the rules some of the time. He violated numerous regulations, it seems, but you can't argue with the results.
Isn't part of one of the Marines' motto to improvise and overcome? Well, I can imagine that sometimes improvising means setting aside a rule when abiding by it might risk someone's life.
Every book I've ever read that was written by war heroes like Pappy Boyington, Audie Murphy, and Norman Schwatzkopf, listed incidents where they bent the rules. Afterall, we want them to be fighters, not automatons.
They have to face discipline for what they did, but an apology shouldn't be part of the deal.
i was never a marine, but i think the only reason they might have done it is because it's too hard to drop trou in full gear.
and chit down their throats.
but that's just me.....
I'm sick of our fear of "inflaming the masses". We're either at war or we're not. All the evidence I've seen lately says we're not. If we're not at war we don't need troops in the Middle East. Either go to war or get out.
Do you seriously think the masses who support the murder of three thousand innocents in New York City, not to mention the other atrocities, can be "inflamed"?
When these people hear we don't want to "inflame" them, they read that as fear. To them fear is a thing to be exploited.
I wouldn't do what these Marines did, but I won't condemn them for it. Having done it I'd never apologize. I might ask God for forgiveness but no apology.
They have to face discipline for what they did, but an apology shouldn't be part of the deal.
I totally agree. We need to get the people and the politicians to decide that there is an enemy and a war they declared determined to destroy us. Until then we are loosing ground every time we concede anything to a muslim complaint any where in the western world.
When you train a man to be able to look into the eyes of another man and kill him without remorse don't be surprised when you discover his social mores aren't the same as yours.
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by mlincoln
Can you expect discipline? I did not know, by your line of thinking, that the armed forces and especially the Marines have a sort of "try to do your best but we understand if you slip up" mentality.
How interesting that all these Marines are no longer in Afghanistan now that all of this has come out. So once they're out the door and safe out comes a video that will further inflame the masses and make the jobs of those replacing them even more difficult and dangerous. Semper Fi indeed.
I'm sick of our fear of "inflaming the masses". We're either at war or we're not. All the evidence I've seen lately says we're not. If we're not at war we don't need troops in the Middle East. Either go to war or get out.
Do you seriously think the masses who support the murder of three thousand innocents in New York City, not to mention the other atrocities, can be "inflamed"?
When these people hear we don't want to "inflame" them, they read that as fear. To them fear is a thing to be exploited.
I wouldn't do what these Marines did, but I won't condemn them for it. Having done it I'd never apologize. I might ask God for forgiveness but no apology.
They have to face discipline for what they did, but an apology shouldn't be part of the deal.
Great post James![;)]
Yep.... Spot on as always. [;)]
quote:It's wonderful when we do our damnedest to win the race to the bottom.
Of course, I'm sure it's totally lost on a great many folks here that this is the sort of "moral relativism" that they railed against in the past...
When you hire a roofing contractor, you don't check to make sure he has clean fingernails before you sign a contract. You can't expect perfect manners and ettiquette from Marines who are trained and tasked to kill terrorists.
Not asking for perfect manners or etiquette. Killing's fine. Doing something you know will enrage the enemy is counterproductive.
Raise your hand if you really think the Taliban will back down because we had a bunch of Marines act like frat boys at a kegger.
Regardless, this is proof positive that the folks who squealed against the "moral relativism" prevalent in the media are now its staunchest champions.
Funny how that works... and mind you, I said funny, not surprising.
I am a HUGE fan of Senator West!!!
I hope he eventually decides to run for President.
NS
It is a shame when misguided patriotism prompts people to stand up and defend the stupid misdeeds of a very small minority of our soldiers. As a veteran, I strongly support our military and whatever mission they are assigned, but that does not mean I should or WILL support misdeeds carried out by a few misguided individuals during those missions. They KNEW what they were doing was wrong and stupid. To defend that action is also. The stresses of combat may EXPLAIN some misdeeds, but they do not EXCUSE them. Please make that distinction when you decide to judge their behavior. Our military members are not now, or EVER, for that matter, perfect. There will always be mistakes and poor choices made. Let their own chain of command decide on the appropriate punishment and close the books on this affair.
Unfortunately he is full of BS! Our soldiers are trained to be BETTER than this. As far as the desecration of our people in Iraq or Somalia goes, since when have the misdeeds of the enemy, especially enemy in ANOTHER COUNTRY, NOT EVEN AFGANI TALIBAN, justified misdeeds by our OWN soldiers? We do not let the behavior of the enemy dictate what WE consider as proper behavior. That would, in effect, let the enemy control OUR standards of behavior and THAT is WRONG on so many levels. We are the GOOD GUYS and we are trained to respond correctly and according to OUR country's standards of what is right and moral.
It is a shame when misguided patriotism prompts people to stand up and defend the stupid misdeeds of a very small minority of our soldiers. As a veteran, I strongly support our military and whatever mission they are assigned, but that does not mean I should or WILL support misdeeds carried out by a few misguided individuals during those missions. They KNEW what they were doing was wrong and stupid. To defend that action is also. The stresses of combat may EXPLAIN some misdeeds, but they do not EXCUSE them. Please make that distinction when you decide to judge their behavior. Our military members are not now, or EVER, for that matter, perfect. There will always be mistakes and poor choices made. Let their own chain of command decide on the appropriate punishment and close the books on this affair.
I guess your opinion is based on your experience leading a battalion of men in combat, since that is exactly what LTC West did during OIF.
IMHO, your viewpoint might change slightly if you ever walked a mile....
NS
Raise your hand if you think pissing on some dead terrorists made any differece at all in the minds of the living terrorists. They've vowed to kill all infidels, and pissing on their brethren likely does little more than provide a very temporary boost in motivation.
That temporary motivation may hurt them more than help them. American Sniper Chris Kyle tells of the insurgents being well-hidden, so he hung an American flag over the edge of a building to draw them out. Sure enough within 60 seconds they stepped out to shoot the flag and were summarily popped.
This is a war, not a game.