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Precious metals question....

toad67toad67 Member Posts: 13,008 ✭✭✭✭
edited July 2015 in General Discussion
Okay, with all the talk about PM's, especially silver, I find myself starting to buy some. But I can't really get a handle on how they would be treated, or used if you ever needed to do so. Will it become the currency if the dollar is worth zero? I mean, if you're the only one around how will people make change for larger quantities of it? If you're using it to purchase something will the sellers have scales to weigh it to verify the amount? With the dollar being worthless what how would the price per ounce be valued? I can't quite see how it would work. Can someone clear some of the fog for me?

Comments

  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Any one that believes in the shtf event, PM's are going to be the new coin of the land is fooling them selfs.

    While PM's may be great to own after the down fall of the dollar, when things get BACK to a normal state, your silver/gold ain't buying any of my food/ ammo while there is no monetary system in play.
  • thorhammerthorhammer Member Posts: 990 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The IMF has a new currency called "Special Drawing Rights" or SDR's

    When the IMF allows China to join the basket of reserve currencies
    in October (dollar, Euro, Yen, Pound), than when and if our dollar
    collapses they will value gold and silver to SDR's. SDR's will be
    backed by gold and silver, the IMF is giving China time to purchase
    their needed tonnes of gold to be included in this new currency.
    There is also a rumor the US, Mexico, and Canada, have already
    printed a currency call the Amero. Probably valued against gold and
    silver. I suppose you could take the metals to a bank and cash them
    in for the new currency and buy food. The transistion from dollars
    to SDR's or Amero's will be a reset for our goverment
    into Martial Law, and I wouldn't know that time table.
    Until then you will need to barter for goods, using the smallest gold/silver coin you own. I
    believe "The Gold Guy's" and "Pawn Star's" will be on every street
    corner waiting to cash your metals into a useable currency.
    For the rest who have mocked gold and silver, they'll be out in
    the riots looting for a can of dog food.[}:)]
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What are you planning for?

    Precious metals as an investment?

    Protection against hyper-inflation?

    SHTF?
  • MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,460 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rest assured that if SHTF someone or some organization will be trying to capitalize on it.

    So, the question is what goods are they going to be willing to exchange for the items you need?

    Logic says that they will trade commodities that they can sell for a profit. So, the higher the demand, the easier to sell. If you want to trade food for medicine, good. If you want to trade fuel for food, good.

    Absent goods to trade, what else will they accept? PM, or nothing.

    Stock up on 90% silver US coins. They are the most readily valued in comparison to their silver content. Have a variety of denominations on hand.

    Just don't expect to get your investment back. Paying 10X face value may only yield 5X in SHTF.

    BUT, if you are holding paper, it may be valueless.
  • toad67toad67 Member Posts: 13,008 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A little of everything...

    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    What are you planning for?

    Precious metals as an investment?

    Protection against hyper-inflation?

    SHTF?
  • thwclwthwclw Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I look at silver and Gold as insurance only.

    I talked with a friend from Sarajevo who went throught ths SHTF scenario there - he told me that they would immediately cash their paychecks (the lucky ones with jobs) and buy food and fuel - if they waited a single day it could mean that you got half the quantity you would have been able to purchase the day before so they tried to get rid of it before it lost too much value.

    They had no silver or gold so they were entirely at the mercy of the runaway inflation but even those that did have valuable commodities were at the mercy of those with weapons like police and military and criminals. People get desperate in desperate times.

    He told me that the political class essentially plundered the countryside and the big houses that were occupied by the previous lot soon became the property of the new politicos. Kind of a "meet the new boss - same as the old boss" scenario.

    Everything was enforced by military power - guns were taken away and those who resisted disappeared. They lived in total fear of the government and did everything they could to stay off the radar.

    Ah... enough of my Pollyanna attitude - I'd get me some silver dimes as insurance and call it a day.
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by thwclw
    I look at silver and Gold as insurance only.

    I talked with a friend from Sarajevo who went throught ths SHTF scenario there - he told me that they would immediately cash their paychecks (the lucky ones with jobs) and buy food and fuel - if they waited a single day it could mean that you got half the quantity you would have been able to purchase the day before so they tried to get rid of it before it lost too much value.

    They had no silver or gold so they were entirely at the mercy of the runaway inflation but even those that did have valuable commodities were at the mercy of those with weapons like police and military and criminals. People get desperate in desperate times.

    He told me that the political class essentially plundered the countryside and the big houses that were occupied by the previous lot soon became the property of the new politicos. Kind of a "meet the new boss - same as the old boss" scenario.

    Everything was enforced by military power - guns were taken away and those who resisted disappeared. They lived in total fear of the government and did everything they could to stay off the radar.

    Ah... enough of my Pollyanna attitude - I'd get me some silver dimes as insurance and call it a day.

    that is very good for your 9th post here. Welcome Pollyanna!
  • GemJediGemJedi Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Look at Greece. You cannot get your money out of the bank because of capital controls and they are looking to give the depositors a haircut when the banks finally do reopen. Having assets like cash or precious metals outside the system could prove valuable. Having food and barter items also. If things get bad enough, businesses will start to fail and people will get into financial distress to the point of selling their assets at fire sale prices to save the home or business. Or the liquidators will sell for pennies on the dollar. But no one can get at their money in the banks and no one is liquid. What if you could trade your $5,000 in silver for a $100,000 car? Could the seller take your silver and send it to another country to obtain Euros that can be used to save their family home?

    During the depression the stock market went from 381 to 42, but hardly anyone bought at 42 because no one was liquid. Precious metals are one safe way of being liquid.
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by GemJedi
    Look at Greece. You cannot get your money out of the bank because of capital controls and they are looking to give the depositors a haircut when the banks finally do reopen. Having assets like cash or precious metals outside the system could prove valuable. Having food and barter items also. If things get bad enough, businesses will start to fail and people will get into financial distress to the point of selling their assets at fire sale prices to save the home or business. Or the liquidators will sell for pennies on the dollar. But no one can get at their money in the banks and no one is liquid. What if you could trade your $5,000 in silver for a $100,000 car? Could the seller take your silver and send it to another country to obtain Euros that can be used to save their family home?

    During the depression the stock market went from 381 to 42, but hardly anyone bought at 42 because no one was liquid. Precious metals are one safe way of being liquid.
    New posters rule!
  • toad67toad67 Member Posts: 13,008 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So how will the purity of the pm be proven, will everybody have to carry a scale? I think that everything that's been mentioned is great, and proves that a person should have some on hand. However, if only a few people have it how will it be traded if no one else has change? Kinda like going into a subway where the sign says "no bills larger than $20" and all you have is a $50 bill for the 6" $5 special.
  • GemJediGemJedi Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't see precious metals as a currency where change will be made so much as being a unit of barter. If you can't make change then the trade will not happen. Or someone will revalue their end of the barter depending on the need. Would you trade a four wheeler for a weapon? Depends how much they need the gun. Or you make the guy throw in a bunch of ammo with the gun to sweeten the deal. Same with mismatches in trading value involving precious metals.

    People with cash savings will be wanting to trade out of currency in favor of the precious metals as well. So the holder of precious metal can obtain cash and purchase goods that way too.

    As to doing field assay, I guess that is a risk. Having recognizable coinage should help some.
  • MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,460 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Toad, miss the part where I talked about 90% US coins? Purity is established, as is weight in pure silver. Keep a variety of dimes, quarters, and halves.
  • toad67toad67 Member Posts: 13,008 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks MG! I scrolled down to fast.

    quote:Originally posted by MG1890
    Toad, miss the part where I talked about 90% US coins? Purity is established, as is weight in pure silver. Keep a variety of dimes, quarters, and halves.
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    The value of holding gold and silver is not for barter in a road warrior post apocalyptic world. It is simply a store of wealth useful to withstand a time of transition. Fiat currencies always revert to the intrinsic value of the paper they are printed on, which is zero. Gold and silver always retain their intrinsic value relative to other commodities and is therefore the best and most conservative core around which to build a fortune.

    It is not an investment. It is a store of wealth.
  • GemJediGemJedi Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    The value of holding gold and silver is not for barter in a road warrior post apocalyptic world. It is simply a store of wealth useful to withstand a time of transition. Fiat currencies always revert to the intrinsic value of the paper they are printed on, which is zero. Gold and silver always retain their intrinsic value relative to other commodities and is therefore the best and most conservative core around which to build a fortune.

    It is not an investment. It is a store of wealth.


    But in the event of a road warrior post apocalyptic world, it isn't bad.
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by GemJedi
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    The value of holding gold and silver is not for barter in a road warrior post apocalyptic world. It is simply a store of wealth useful to withstand a time of transition. Fiat currencies always revert to the intrinsic value of the paper they are printed on, which is zero. Gold and silver always retain their intrinsic value relative to other commodities and is therefore the best and most conservative core around which to build a fortune.

    It is not an investment. It is a store of wealth.


    But in the event of a road warrior post apocalyptic world, it isn't bad.


    It certainly is better than collectable beanie babies.
  • proappproapp Member Posts: 3,264
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    quote:Originally posted by GemJedi
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    The value of holding gold and silver is not for barter in a road warrior post apocalyptic world. It is simply a store of wealth useful to withstand a time of transition. Fiat currencies always revert to the intrinsic value of the paper they are printed on, which is zero. Gold and silver always retain their intrinsic value relative to other commodities and is therefore the best and most conservative core around which to build a fortune.

    It is not an investment. It is a store of wealth.


    But in the event of a road warrior post apocalyptic world, it isn't bad.


    It certainly is better than collectable beanie babies.


    Crap! Don.
  • GemJediGemJedi Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102815693

    U.S. Mint sold out of silver coins due to strong demand
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    buy silver coins.

    buy 1 $1 silver dollar
    2 half dollars
    4 quarters
    10 dimes

    thats how you keep a little of the big and a lot of the small.

    water food and ammo will be better investments because you have to ask how long before confidence returns before someone will trade a drink of water for a silver dime?
  • RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    Lead is my primary precious metal investment. Preferably copper-jacketed.
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 22,051 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Be better off buying 999.99 pure silver to make coloidal silver water for drinking. Make sure you drink that water in pure copper cup to kill off more microbes.
  • onepopperonepopper Member Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My friend just paid his dentist in gold. We have a new car dealer in Ft Smith, AR who will take gold and silver for new and used cars.
  • hobo9650hobo9650 Member Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've been collecting a few silver dollars and 5 gal buckets of ammo brass. Also a few hundred lbs of lead.

    My next purchase will be the 90% small silver coins. Making change for a silver dollar could be a problem sometimes. I also wonder how those holding 100 oz bars can prove they are gold/silver and how do you slice off a certain amount to buy an item.

    Since banks pay VERY low interest rates, I would lose very little if I were to take all my money from the bank and "store" it myself.



    I've been overseas when the local currency went to about 10% of its value overnight.

    Evidently, the stock market has the jitters and is just waiting for someone to yell "The sky is falling".
  • mnrivrat48mnrivrat48 Member Posts: 1,707 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Perhaps a good way to answer some/part of the questions is to take a look at a few counties that have had hyper inflation in recent times. There is more than one example to study.
    Also look to the lessons of the past as far back as you would like to go. When smaller amounts ae needed what happened then ? Ever heard of pieces of 8 ?
    There are simple tests to determine silver content and purity to at least some close level. Some smart person who is in the gold and silver business will perhaps come along soon with a 1 troy oz round that is divided into pie slice pieces that can be easily seperated at score lines.

    Going back to around 1980 when PM went up I remember advertisements to buy cars for so much face value silver.

    The world did not always have paper money and they managed to find ways to use metal coins to do business. Basics like food and drinking water can be another part of ones SHTF bank.

    quote:Lead is my primary precious metal investment. Preferably copper-jacketed.

    Good luck with that . Perhps if it gets that bad a good cook book for long pig will sell.
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let us not forget semi precious metals as well...

    A well balanced portfolio for a screwed sportsman should include a percentage of all things that have value.
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