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China VOWS to retaliate LOL
mogley98
Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
Well lets just see here we buy 505.5 Billion in goods from them, they buy 129.9 Billion in goods from us. Good luck Chuck.
Trump needs America to stand strong on this one and lets get this worked out fairly.
Once we convince China they need our money more than we need their cheap crap the other countries will be a breeze.
Stand strong support American farmers buy local and screw China!
Trump needs America to stand strong on this one and lets get this worked out fairly.
Once we convince China they need our money more than we need their cheap crap the other countries will be a breeze.
Stand strong support American farmers buy local and screw China!
Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
Comments
In the last 20 years or so I have made an effort to not buy chinese crap, it is hard to not let it sneak in because there is so much of it.
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
Brad Steele
As far as costs of producing things, I don't think we should be allowing countries to use children in sweat shops to make goods cheap and if they do tariffs should be used to force them to level up.
Just because a country can get it's starving people to work for 10 cents a day doesn't make it OK.
I suspect with the growing middle class in some of these third world countries eventually production costs will level off some, and then we have to be willing to compete too and maybe getting 25 bucks and hour to not sweep the floor in some Union job will have to adapt too.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
Don some of the reasons people turned to foreign products also lye with American manufacturing controlled by greedy unions. Let's face it. When a quality tool can be made by American workers, receiving a fair wage for, for $20.00. But the tool is made by unions workers, that are raping the company, and the unions costs drive the retail price of the tool to $40.00. What is the consumer to do? Keep paying inflated prices put of his fair salary so he can support the union guy making twice what he is?
Yes we need to buy American made. But only when a quality product is offered at a fair price. Fair price doesn't have top equate to Chinese junk price, but it does have to have correlation to the wages of the consumer compared to the wages of the person making the product.
I am not going to give $3000.00 dollars for a TV that can be sold for $1500 by workers receiving a fair wage. I know unions have their place and some a quality organizations. But we have those that aren't to thank, in large part, for a lot of our production jobs leaving the country.
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
As far as costs of producing things, I don't think we should be allowing countries to use children in sweat shops to make goods cheap and if they do tariffs should be used to force them to level up.
Just because a country can get it's starving people to work for 10 cents a day doesn't make it OK.
I suspect with the growing middle class in some of these third world countries eventually production costs will level off some, and then we have to be willing to compete too and maybe getting 25 bucks and hour to not sweep the floor in some Union job will have to adapt too.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
How many American farm children work for near nothing?
How many immigrant farm hands work for near nothing in America?
I know I worked my childhood. Quite a few here have, I imagine it still happens, maybe not as much with big agro farms.
I go to my local donut shop and the kids are working
I go to other mom and pop shops and kids are working. Sorry, work is good for a childs soul. I imagine that there are some abuses over seas, but hardly the epidemic one may think.
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
You should get out of your liberal politician induced fantasy world. USA made TVs and the like don't cost anywhere what you think they cost. You have been listening to your liberal Heroes for too long and are starting to believe their rhetoric
https://www.techwalla.com/articles/list-of-televisions-that-are-made-in-america
And until recently Motorola produced a smartphone that was price competitive with Chinese smartphones. They just moved to China recently so that they can can sell them for the same price but make more money.
So you see, if Chinese products were dried up here in the United States. The cost to purchase USA made products WOULD NOT become cost prohibitive. It would be that the manufacturers wouldn't make a killing selling them...
So again, quit drinking the Kool-Aid your beloved liberal politicians are making you drink..
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
As far as costs of producing things, I don't think we should be allowing countries to use children in sweat shops to make goods cheap and if they do tariffs should be used to force them to level up.
Just because a country can get it's starving people to work for 10 cents a day doesn't make it OK.
I suspect with the growing middle class in some of these third world countries eventually production costs will level off some, and then we have to be willing to compete too and maybe getting 25 bucks and hour to not sweep the floor in some Union job will have to adapt too.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
How many American farm children work for near nothing?
How many immigrant farm hands work for near nothing in America?
I know I worked my childhood. Quite a few here have, I imagine it still happens, maybe not as much with big agro farms.
I go to my local donut shop and the kids are working
I go to other mom and pop shops and kids are working. Sorry, work is good for a childs soul. I imagine that there are some abuses over seas, but hardly the epidemic one may think.
Of course works good for kids.
The difference here in the United States most, not all but most kids have a choice whether they want to work or not in China not so much
The difference is that here in the United States, the kids get to go to school also. In China, unless you show special talent, they're FORCED to go to work instead of go to school...
Plus their work hours are 16 hours a day, their work week through 7 days. Their work environment is horrible...
Yep, you're comparing apples to oranges, so what you are saying actually means nothing...
I expect this will really hurt Harbor Freight...?.. [:p]
Many companies have become wealthy off this junk. Walmart and Apple to name just two.
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
As far as costs of producing things, I don't think we should be allowing countries to use children in sweat shops to make goods cheap and if they do tariffs should be used to force them to level up.
Just because a country can get it's starving people to work for 10 cents a day doesn't make it OK.
I suspect with the growing middle class in some of these third world countries eventually production costs will level off some, and then we have to be willing to compete too and maybe getting 25 bucks and hour to not sweep the floor in some Union job will have to adapt too.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2119890/modern-slavery-and-child-labour-asias-unacceptable-record
As noted in the link above, there remains a problem with child labor, but it is being addressed incredibly rapidly (in historic terms).
You must have also missed the fact that worldwide, the number of people living in extreme poverty had been cut by a factor of 4 over the past 3 decades. This is also incredibly fast as compared to history.
https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
Forced child labor is a problem that is being solved. It is being solved because of international pressure applied by 1st world businesses (and to a lessor extent governments) because these businesses can no longer afford to be exposed as users of child labor.
Moralizing about a system that has lifted 100s of millions from poverty over the past 30 years and bitching about a business model that is being phased because of the fact that products are being imported into the US is a contradictory position.
If the great moralists against child labor would open their closed minds, they would see that the best thing for the children of Asia is the continued sourcing of product from these countries by US Companies.
By doing so, in the past 50 years we are approaching the point where forced child labor in Asia has dropped to below 10% of children, and extreme poverty has also dropped to 10% or below world wide. One must also consider that this figure includes all children up to 18 years of age, and the average workday is 6.5 hours. Abuses still occur and need to be stopped, but it is a vastly different landscape than it was just a generation ago.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
As far as costs of producing things, I don't think we should be allowing countries to use children in sweat shops to make goods cheap and if they do tariffs should be used to force them to level up.
Just because a country can get it's starving people to work for 10 cents a day doesn't make it OK.
I suspect with the growing middle class in some of these third world countries eventually production costs will level off some, and then we have to be willing to compete too and maybe getting 25 bucks and hour to not sweep the floor in some Union job will have to adapt too.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2119890/modern-slavery-and-child-labour-asias-unacceptable-record
As noted in the link above, there remains a problem with child labor, but it is being addressed incredibly rapidly (in historic terms).
You must have also missed the fact that worldwide, the number of people living in extreme poverty had been cut by a factor of 4 over the past 3 decades. This is also incredibly fast as compared to history.
https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
Forced child labor is a problem that is being solved. It is being solved because of international pressure applied by 1st world businesses (and to a lessor extent governments) because these businesses can no longer afford to be exposed as users of child labor.
Moralizing about a system that has lifted 100s of millions from poverty over the past 30 years and bitching about a business model that is being phased because of the fact that products are being imported into the US is a contradictory position.
If the great moralists against child labor would open their closed minds, they would see that the best thing for the children of Asia is the continued sourcing of product from these countries by US Companies.
By doing so, in the past 50 years we are approaching the point where forced child labor in Asia has dropped to below 10% of children, and extreme poverty has also dropped to 10% or below world wide. One must also consider that this figure includes all children up to 18 years of age, and the average workday is 6.5 hours. Abuses still occur and need to be stopped, but it is a vastly different landscape than it was just a generation ago.
You're trying to minimize the problem. And that's what your liberal leaders want you to do
The fact is, that the problem still exists. And until the problem becomes extinct . It's a huge problem.
You say pressure has help to clear up some of the problem. tariffs will eliminate the problem
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
As far as costs of producing things, I don't think we should be allowing countries to use children in sweat shops to make goods cheap and if they do tariffs should be used to force them to level up.
Just because a country can get it's starving people to work for 10 cents a day doesn't make it OK.
I suspect with the growing middle class in some of these third world countries eventually production costs will level off some, and then we have to be willing to compete too and maybe getting 25 bucks and hour to not sweep the floor in some Union job will have to adapt too.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2119890/modern-slavery-and-child-labour-asias-unacceptable-record
As noted in the link above, there remains a problem with child labor, but it is being addressed incredibly rapidly (in historic terms).
You must have also missed the fact that worldwide, the number of people living in extreme poverty had been cut by a factor of 4 over the past 3 decades. This is also incredibly fast as compared to history.
https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
Forced child labor is a problem that is being solved. It is being solved because of international pressure applied by 1st world businesses (and to a lessor extent governments) because these businesses can no longer afford to be exposed as users of child labor.
Moralizing about a system that has lifted 100s of millions from poverty over the past 30 years and bitching about a business model that is being phased because of the fact that products are being imported into the US is a contradictory position.
If the great moralists against child labor would open their closed minds, they would see that the best thing for the children of Asia is the continued sourcing of product from these countries by US Companies.
By doing so, in the past 50 years we are approaching the point where forced child labor in Asia has dropped to below 10% of children, and extreme poverty has also dropped to 10% or below world wide. One must also consider that this figure includes all children up to 18 years of age, and the average workday is 6.5 hours. Abuses still occur and need to be stopped, but it is a vastly different landscape than it was just a generation ago.
You're trying to minimize the problem. And that's what your liberal leaders want you to do
The fact is, that the problem still exists. And until the problem becomes extinct . It's a huge problem.
You say pressure has help to clear up some of the problem. tariffs will eliminate the problem
Capitalism and the free exchange of goods is minimizing the problem. I am merely stating the facts of what is happening.
Also, please explain how will tariffs eliminate the problem.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
As far as costs of producing things, I don't think we should be allowing countries to use children in sweat shops to make goods cheap and if they do tariffs should be used to force them to level up.
Just because a country can get it's starving people to work for 10 cents a day doesn't make it OK.
I suspect with the growing middle class in some of these third world countries eventually production costs will level off some, and then we have to be willing to compete too and maybe getting 25 bucks and hour to not sweep the floor in some Union job will have to adapt too.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2119890/modern-slavery-and-child-labour-asias-unacceptable-record
As noted in the link above, there remains a problem with child labor, but it is being addressed incredibly rapidly (in historic terms).
You must have also missed the fact that worldwide, the number of people living in extreme poverty had been cut by a factor of 4 over the past 3 decades. This is also incredibly fast as compared to history.
https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
Forced child labor is a problem that is being solved. It is being solved because of international pressure applied by 1st world businesses (and to a lessor extent governments) because these businesses can no longer afford to be exposed as users of child labor.
Moralizing about a system that has lifted 100s of millions from poverty over the past 30 years and bitching about a business model that is being phased because of the fact that products are being imported into the US is a contradictory position.
If the great moralists against child labor would open their closed minds, they would see that the best thing for the children of Asia is the continued sourcing of product from these countries by US Companies.
By doing so, in the past 50 years we are approaching the point where forced child labor in Asia has dropped to below 10% of children, and extreme poverty has also dropped to 10% or below world wide. One must also consider that this figure includes all children up to 18 years of age, and the average workday is 6.5 hours. Abuses still occur and need to be stopped, but it is a vastly different landscape than it was just a generation ago.
You're trying to minimize the problem. And that's what your liberal leaders want you to do
The fact is, that the problem still exists. And until the problem becomes extinct . It's a huge problem.
You say pressure has help to clear up some of the problem. tariffs will eliminate the problem
Capitalism and the free exchange of goods is minimizing the problem. I am merely stating the facts of what is happening.
Also, please explain how will tariffs eliminate the problem.
Tariffs would eliminate the problem by bringing production to the United States where child labor is regulated...
And it just slays me that you're happy with JUST minimizing the problem
I myself will never be satisfied until the problem no longer exists.
This from National Geographic, so take it with a grain of salt.
Taking garbanzo beans as an example, they can't sell them because of trade restrictions and tariffs. Had to wait to harvest until crop moisture was below 10% because they have to go into long term storage.
Not a good situation.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
All, I know is local farmers (who voted for and supported Trump) are pissed.
Taking garbanzo beans as an example, they can't sell them because of trade restrictions and tariffs. Had to wait to harvest until crop moisture was below 10% because they have to go into long term storage.
Not a good situation.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
As far as costs of producing things, I don't think we should be allowing countries to use children in sweat shops to make goods cheap and if they do tariffs should be used to force them to level up.
Just because a country can get it's starving people to work for 10 cents a day doesn't make it OK.
I suspect with the growing middle class in some of these third world countries eventually production costs will level off some, and then we have to be willing to compete too and maybe getting 25 bucks and hour to not sweep the floor in some Union job will have to adapt too.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2119890/modern-slavery-and-child-labour-asias-unacceptable-record
As noted in the link above, there remains a problem with child labor, but it is being addressed incredibly rapidly (in historic terms).
You must have also missed the fact that worldwide, the number of people living in extreme poverty had been cut by a factor of 4 over the past 3 decades. This is also incredibly fast as compared to history.
https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
Forced child labor is a problem that is being solved. It is being solved because of international pressure applied by 1st world businesses (and to a lessor extent governments) because these businesses can no longer afford to be exposed as users of child labor.
Moralizing about a system that has lifted 100s of millions from poverty over the past 30 years and bitching about a business model that is being phased because of the fact that products are being imported into the US is a contradictory position.
If the great moralists against child labor would open their closed minds, they would see that the best thing for the children of Asia is the continued sourcing of product from these countries by US Companies.
By doing so, in the past 50 years we are approaching the point where forced child labor in Asia has dropped to below 10% of children, and extreme poverty has also dropped to 10% or below world wide. One must also consider that this figure includes all children up to 18 years of age, and the average workday is 6.5 hours. Abuses still occur and need to be stopped, but it is a vastly different landscape than it was just a generation ago.
You're trying to minimize the problem. And that's what your liberal leaders want you to do
The fact is, that the problem still exists. And until the problem becomes extinct . It's a huge problem.
You say pressure has help to clear up some of the problem. tariffs will eliminate the problem
Capitalism and the free exchange of goods is minimizing the problem. I am merely stating the facts of what is happening.
Also, please explain how will tariffs eliminate the problem.
Tariffs would eliminate the problem by bringing production to the United States where child labor is regulated...
And it just slays me that you're happy with JUST minimizing the problem
I myself will never be satisfied until the problem no longer exists.
I am a big fan of bringing production back into the US, and currently support US manufactures as much as is possible.
Supporting US manufacturing and eliminating child labor in China, however, are two almost completely unrelated goals, and stopping the purchase of Chinese goods runs counter to the reduction and elimination of child labor.
Active engagement by US businesses and the public pressure of the US consumer on those business when child labor is exposed is what is reducing child labor. Look at the trend over the past 40 years. Child labor is disappearing in Asia, not because we remove ourselves as a market, rather because we engage the producers and force them to eliminate these unethical practices.
Tariffs that make the imported products non-competitive in the US may bring some production back to the US, but much will remain unless of course, the EU and the rest of Asia impose tariffs that close the factories. Then we have children starving to death rather than being misused by an unethical employer.
We as consumers are achieving your stated goal of eliminating child labor. It is dropping faster than at any time in the history of the human race. If elimination is your goal, I would think you would consider keeping on the path that is working.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
Not having those beans is going to hurt China way more and raise the prices eventually. Either way WWII hurt America and we felt it was necessary it might hurt a bit but together we can endure it
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
All, I know is local farmers (who voted for and supported Trump) are pissed.
Taking garbanzo beans as an example, they can't sell them because of trade restrictions and tariffs. Had to wait to harvest until crop moisture was below 10% because they have to go into long term storage.
Not a good situation.
Meanwhile, American farmers go broke. GREAT strategy![xx(]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Not having those beans is going to hurt China way more and raise the prices eventually. Either way WWII hurt America and we felt it was necessary it might hurt a bit but together we can endure it
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
All, I know is local farmers (who voted for and supported Trump) are pissed.
Taking garbanzo beans as an example, they can't sell them because of trade restrictions and tariffs. Had to wait to harvest until crop moisture was below 10% because they have to go into long term storage.
Not a good situation.
Meanwhile, American farmers go broke. GREAT strategy![xx(]
Nobody ever said fixing a problem is free
Not having those beans is going to hurt China way more and raise the prices eventually. Either way WWII hurt America and we felt it was necessary it might hurt a bit but together we can endure it
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
All, I know is local farmers (who voted for and supported Trump) are pissed.
Taking garbanzo beans as an example, they can't sell them because of trade restrictions and tariffs. Had to wait to harvest until crop moisture was below 10% because they have to go into long term storage.
Not a good situation.
I thought Trump passed the farmers relief bill to address the concerns of the farmers.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
Brad Steele
So in summary,getting a new nuclear deal with Iran is not coming anytime soon and Red China has been getting ready to drop the petrol dollar for a long time.
I see war clouds gathering soon as China hooks up with Russia and Turkey to let America service it's own debt problems without them buying any debt from us anytime soon.
Lets hope That The secret buyers of our debt in the future is not The Federal Reserve in diguise.[:D] https://www.forbes.com/sites/charleswallace1/2018/08/14/are-russia-and-china-trying-to-kill-king-dollar/#41bb3e427948
serf
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/foreign-trade/brics-emerging-economies-meet-as-us-trade-war-looms/articleshow/65137394.cms
BRICS has the strategic potential to re-shape world trade." Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan will also attend a summit as the current chair of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) and will meet Putin on the summit's sidelines.
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
I can't speak for others but I am willing to pay more to make trading partners level the field.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
All, I know is local farmers (who voted for and supported Trump) are pissed.
Taking garbanzo beans as an example, they can't sell them because of trade restrictions and tariffs. Had to wait to harvest until crop moisture was below 10% because they have to go into long term storage.
Not a good situation.
Not good for farmer short term, maybe, but maybe the price of Hummus will drop.
Place the garbanzo beans, tahini, lemon juice, salt and garlic in a blender or food processor. Blend until smooth. Transfer mixture to a serving bowl.
Drizzle olive oil over the garbanzo bean mixture. Sprinkle with paprika and parsley.
The farmers are going to have to diversify, maybe even start growing hemp for manufacturing. The stupid will fail, the smart will prevail. Farming is gambling regardless on how you plan. The weather, disease, and market prices. Nobody said it was easy.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seizes-on-chinas-woes-as-talks-start-1534970148
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
AMEN
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
Don some of the reasons people turned to foreign products also lye with American manufacturing controlled by greedy unions. Let's face it. When a quality tool can be made by American workers, receiving a fair wage for, for $20.00. But the tool is made by unions workers, that are raping the company, and the unions costs drive the retail price of the tool to $40.00. What is the consumer to do? Keep paying inflated prices put of his fair salary so he can support the union guy making twice what he is?
Yes we need to buy American made. But only when a quality product is offered at a fair price. Fair price doesn't have top equate to Chinese junk price, but it does have to have correlation to the wages of the consumer compared to the wages of the person making the product.
I am not going to give $3000.00 dollars for a TV that can be sold for $1500 by workers receiving a fair wage. I know unions have their place and some a quality organizations. But we have those that aren't to thank, in large part, for a lot of our production jobs leaving the country.
Umm Yes that's got to be it.[:(]
As long as Americans continue to let carpetbaggers rape the country by buying the crap that is being imported by, who, carpetbaggers, then it is the Chinese buying consumer that is purchasing equipment for the Chinese military.
I will say it again, when the bullets come from the Chinese in another ten years, do not be surprised.
And back up with some facts as to why it was Unions that have created an import system that makes another bunch of pirates rich with the U.S. treasure. The same crap made over there sells for the same price once the factories close and there is no competition to create a system of competition to create quality products. Has nothing to do with unions. But continue to live in a glass house made from there.
They have raised their prices so high it is still cheaper for us to buy from China.
Now we really try to buy American cause a lot of our jobs are for the Government. Most of those jobs we have a requirement to buy American.
quote:Originally posted by SCOUT5
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
we have given china enuff money to enable them to take first place in the world...and they do NOT want to gravy train to stop...partly depends on whether the AMERICAN consumer will give a chit or not and the politicians stand with AMERICA or china
If the American consumer gave a chit, this never would have happened in the first place.
The 'we' to whom you refer is the American consumer. It is not the politicians, it is not the government.
That said, China needs us a whole lot more than we need China.
Americans will eventually get use to paying $ 2,000.00 for a smartphone so that a living wage can be paid to American workers assembling them. We will get used to living with one $ 3,000.00 televisions instead of four $ 750.00 televisions.
A trade deficient is not 'giving them money'. It is the realization that the cost of production in some areas is lower than it is in others.
We can manufacture a whole lot of things cheaper than can be done in China. Steel, aluminum, most consumer electronics and most mass-produced plastic crap do not fall into that category. Trade barriers erected by China to protect their industry from the things we produce more efficiently should be negotiated out of existence. If it takes a tariff threat or a short term tariff plan to remove these barriers, perhaps it is the correct path.
It is not a long term strategy however, unless the afore mentioned price increases are something with which we are comfortable.
Don some of the reasons people turned to foreign products also lye with American manufacturing controlled by greedy unions. Let's face it. When a quality tool can be made by American workers, receiving a fair wage for, for $20.00. But the tool is made by unions workers, that are raping the company, and the unions costs drive the retail price of the tool to $40.00. What is the consumer to do? Keep paying inflated prices put of his fair salary so he can support the union guy making twice what he is?
Yes we need to buy American made. But only when a quality product is offered at a fair price. Fair price doesn't have top equate to Chinese junk price, but it does have to have correlation to the wages of the consumer compared to the wages of the person making the product.
I am not going to give $3000.00 dollars for a TV that can be sold for $1500 by workers receiving a fair wage. I know unions have their place and some a quality organizations. But we have those that aren't to thank, in large part, for a lot of our production jobs leaving the country.
Umm Yes that's got to be it.[:(]
As long as Americans continue to let carpetbaggers rape the country by buying the crap that is being imported by, who, carpetbaggers, then it is the Chinese buying consumer that is purchasing equipment for the Chinese military.
I will say it again, when the bullets come from the Chinese in another ten years, do not be surprised.
And back up with some facts as to why it was Unions that have created an import system that makes another bunch of pirates rich with the U.S. treasure. The same crap made over there sells for the same price once the factories close and there is no competition to create a system of competition to create quality products. Has nothing to do with unions. But continue to live in a glass house made from there.
+1 Missouri Mule
The absence of tariffs on goods coming into the US and the over taxing of US manufacturers (30%) is what communicated to our manufacturers that they were better off being foreign entities than being domestic companies.
Enough American blood has been spilled by The Illuminati over the ideology of political systems. It's all about the love of money and power in this world now.
A rich man's war and a poor man's fight has a ring of truth to it. Don't you think?
serf
Remember OLD oil and NEW oil prices? (1976?). Within weeks there were hundreds of New "Oil Traders" when before there were only a few. Within Months there were NEW oil wells drilled.
People in the U.S. made Millions buying old oil at the LOW, LOW price and reselling it as NEW OIL. Oil Companies "capped" their OLD wells and started producing from their NEW wells and selling at the Higher new oil prices. Know this for a fact, worked on many nice, high paying projects to get NEW OIL. [:D]
Controls or tariffs the idea is the same.
Specifically, I will tell the story of the ?reseller boom,? in which financiers in the oil market made phony trades in order to evade the spirit (and sometimes the letter!) of the price control rules. Thus, clever traders instead siphoned off the ostensible margin of profit that was supposed to go to the American public. The episode was just one of the reasons that even Congress threw in the towel and realized that price controls were a very poor instrument.
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/regulation/crazy-crude-oil-price-controls-1970s/
I'd imagine China will still be buying U.S. products but FIRST the items will be shipped to a non tariff destination and then to China or for consumption in the destination country and their "excess" sold to China.. the possibilities for making money are endless.
Don't underestimate the Capitalist spirit when there is money to be made and mouths to be fed.
Don't think there is a world wide food surplus and china can't just quit importing to feed their 1.5 Billions citizens.
Remember OLD oil and NEW oil prices? (1976?). Within weeks there were hundreds of New "Oil Traders" when before there were only a few. Within Months there were NEW oil wells drilled.
People in the U.S. made Millions buying old oil at the LOW, LOW price and reselling it as NEW OIL. Oil Companies "capped" their OLD wells and started producing from their NEW wells and selling at the Higher new oil prices. Know this for a fact, worked on many nice, high paying projects to get NEW OIL. [:D]
Controls or tariffs the idea is the same.
Specifically, I will tell the story of the ?reseller boom,? in which financiers in the oil market made phony trades in order to evade the spirit (and sometimes the letter!) of the price control rules. Thus, clever traders instead siphoned off the ostensible margin of profit that was supposed to go to the American public. The episode was just one of the reasons that even Congress threw in the towel and realized that price controls were a very poor instrument.
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/regulation/crazy-crude-oil-price-controls-1970s/
I'd imagine China will still be buying U.S. products but FIRST the items will be shipped to a non tariff destination and then to China or for consumption in the destination country and their "excess" sold to China.. the possibilities for making money are endless.
Don't underestimate the Capitalist spirit when there is money to be made and mouths to be fed.
Your capitalist spirit is just called greed when dealing with communist dictatorships. The ideology of political systems should have been a factor for not doing business with a dictatorship in Asia!
Marx's said it best when saying give the West enough rope and they will hang themselves.
serf
quote:Originally posted by droptop
Don't think there is a world wide food surplus and china can't just quit importing to feed their 1.5 Billions citizens.
Remember OLD oil and NEW oil prices? (1976?). Within weeks there were hundreds of New "Oil Traders" when before there were only a few. Within Months there were NEW oil wells drilled.
People in the U.S. made Millions buying old oil at the LOW, LOW price and reselling it as NEW OIL. Oil Companies "capped" their OLD wells and started producing from their NEW wells and selling at the Higher new oil prices. Know this for a fact, worked on many nice, high paying projects to get NEW OIL. [:D]
Controls or tariffs the idea is the same.
Specifically, I will tell the story of the ?reseller boom,? in which financiers in the oil market made phony trades in order to evade the spirit (and sometimes the letter!) of the price control rules. Thus, clever traders instead siphoned off the ostensible margin of profit that was supposed to go to the American public. The episode was just one of the reasons that even Congress threw in the towel and realized that price controls were a very poor instrument.
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/regulation/crazy-crude-oil-price-controls-1970s/
I'd imagine China will still be buying U.S. products but FIRST the items will be shipped to a non tariff destination and then to China or for consumption in the destination country and their "excess" sold to China.. the possibilities for making money are endless.
Don't underestimate the Capitalist spirit when there is money to be made and mouths to be fed.
Your capitalist spirit is just called greed when dealing with communist dictatorships. The ideology of political systems should have been a factor for not doing business with a dictatorship in Asia!
Marx's said it best when saying give the West enough rope and they will hang themselves.
serf
Agreed.