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French Rifle I never knew existed.
Waco Waltz
Member Posts: 10,836 ✭✭
NEVER seen one of these. And from my interests I should have.
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=327239130
And at that price I'll never see one in person
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=327239130
And at that price I'll never see one in person
Comments
NEVER seen one of these. And from my interests I should have.
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=327239130
And at that price I'll never see one in person
First semi-auto rifle to be issued in any numbers to frontline troops in a war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusil_Automatique_Modele_1917
They are particularly rare, especially those with out the gas ports blocked. They clips are shaped a bit differently than the Berthier rifle clips and are also very rare. I own to of the clips and have always wanted this rifle, but at these prices and during this economic times, funds are tight.
I one sell for about $8000 not very long ago. Highly desirable to collectors who know a little something about these.
Great shape!
The French stopped the German advance cold at the Battle of the Marne in 1914. The Germans never made it to Paris.
WW2, a different story.
The French also got their butts whipped by Vietnam in 1953, what a bunch of wimps!
OMGosh, those pesky French again, leading the world in weapons design and thinking.Prior to the 20th century the French actually were the world leader in this sort of stuff, with everything from artillery down to their individual issue weapons being respected world wide. Their weapons were known as the cutting edge in concept, design and execution.
At the turn of the century the idea of equipping all personnel with a semiauto rifle showed that this sort of forward thinking still existed within their military leaders, but the problem was that by this time France's designers had fallen way behind the curve.
By WWI the 1911 vs. Lebel 1892 revolver, Lewis gun/BAR vs. Chauchat, Vickers/Maxim machine guns vs. M1907 St Etienne were clear examples of how far that country's engineers had slipped.
Beyond WWI the French military itself also began to fall behind.
They've never quite recovered their glory days.
The French also got their butts whipped by Vietnam in 1953, what a bunch of wimps!
have to laugh at the irony of this post, given the oh-so-succesfull US involvement there....oh wait a minute. [:D]
Never fired. Dropped once...
Great shape!
I am afraid that is not correct. If it was dropped it was only because a German advanced past a French corpse.
quote:Originally posted by gary wray
OMGosh, those pesky French again, leading the world in weapons design and thinking.Prior to the 20th century the French actually were the world leader in this sort of stuff, with everything from artillery down to their individual issue weapons being respected world wide. Their weapons were known as the cutting edge in concept, design and execution.
At the turn of the century the idea of equipping all personnel with a semiauto rifle showed that this sort of forward thinking still existed within their military leaders, but the problem was that by this time France's designers had fallen way behind the curve.
By WWI the 1911 vs. Lebel 1892 revolver, Lewis gun/BAR vs. Chauchat, Vickers/Maxim machine guns vs. M1907 St Etienne were clear examples of how far that country's engineers had slipped.
Beyond WWI the French military itself also began to fall behind.
They've never quite recovered their glory days.
Some have made the case that the French were so collectively shell shocked from WWI that the leadership was un able to mount any real resistance to the Nazi's. When you look at the battle of France it was lost 20 years before the first shot was fired and it was lost by the military and political planners.
quote:
The French also got their butts whipped by Vietnam in 1953, what a bunch of wimps!
have to laugh at the irony of this post, given the oh-so-succesfull US involvement there....oh wait a minute. [:D]
Fromage-mange guenon reddition.[}:)][:X]
It was not a failure of technology that has branded the french for two generations.
It was a failure of strategic thinking and tactical implementation that caused their collapse in WWII.
Swift v smart.
quote:Originally posted by Txs
quote:Originally posted by gary wray
OMGosh, those pesky French again, leading the world in weapons design and thinking.Prior to the 20th century the French actually were the world leader in this sort of stuff, with everything from artillery down to their individual issue weapons being respected world wide. Their weapons were known as the cutting edge in concept, design and execution.
At the turn of the century the idea of equipping all personnel with a semiauto rifle showed that this sort of forward thinking still existed within their military leaders, but the problem was that by this time France's designers had fallen way behind the curve.
By WWI the 1911 vs. Lebel 1892 revolver, Lewis gun/BAR vs. Chauchat, Vickers/Maxim machine guns vs. M1907 St Etienne were clear examples of how far that country's engineers had slipped.
Beyond WWI the French military itself also began to fall behind.
They've never quite recovered their glory days.
Some have made the case that the French were so collectively shell shocked from WWI that the leadership was un able to mount any real resistance to the Nazi's. When you look at the battle of France it was lost 20 years before the first shot was fired and it was lost by the military and political planners.
I disagree. The French were beaten in WW II at the peace tables of Versailles after WW I, when the French got greedy and imposed a grossly unfair settlement on the Germans and the Brits as well as Wilson went along with it. Wilson's naivety and inaction was also a direct cause of the rise of Adolph Hitler and his thugs.
Some say the generals who won WW1 were too politically powerful after the war and new thinkig did not enter in to tactical planning.
The Maginot line was real resistance. Real, expensive resistance. France had the largest army in Europe, and more and better tanks than Germany in 1940. They were only a little behind the curve on airplanes. They were building them fast and were about to come out with a better one, whose name I forget.
I really think the gold thing I am always harping on had something to do with it. Nobody thought Germany could afford a real war. They did not realize the Germans were stripping certain citizens of lifetimes of life savings.
Gold was worth more in 1940 than when it was earned, because there was still a depression on as well as a war.
Invariably, when French weapons come up, someone snickers and says 'they were cowards.'
The French soldiers fought with elan and bravery during both wars. And were mowed down by the hundreds of thousands. The officers, in particular generals, had no concept of proper strategy and tactics in the face of the German War College's finest. Take 1914; so incensed over 1870, the French were determined, in the event of war, to ignore all else and mount a massive offensiv a la outrance, straight into Germany, hoping pure guts would overcome superior numbers. Very romantic, but with the bulk of the German army swinging through Belgium aimed at your hinterland, that's a really, really stupid idea. They BARELY turned back in time to block the German advance, and without the BEF, the outside wings of the envelopment might well have taken paris. But to say the soldiers cut and ran dishonors their memory.