In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

denial for long gun?

fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
edited September 2011 in General Discussion
ok i was in with my brother in law other day and he was tryin to buy a longgun(308) and he was denied. i know his entire back round. So my question. He has check despetion(bounced check) on his record--2005, restraing order(no violance "threats")---2003, and possesion of Achohol under 21-- 2002

All have been taken care of and restraing order was never renewed after 2004. So why whould he be getting denied? he is 30yrs old now. and question for me sort of(just to know) are CWP any harder to get than buying a gun? meaning is there a tougher back round check?

should also mention that he has lived in another state now for almost 7yrs
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    Were the bounced check charges a felony?

    What state? Maybe your state has something prohibiting a firearm purchase for an extended period after a restraining order is issued.

    EDIT: could also be a denial for something he did not do, may be a name mixup with someone else having a very similar name and dob. Adding an additional identifier such as a SSN helps to avoid that.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No felonies, and his state was indiana on all 3 charges. IIRC when i had him dig up papers on all 3 they were class c misdiminor or what ever

    **added as far as i know he put DOb,Full name and SSN
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • 4627046270 Member Posts: 12,627
    edited November -1
    The best bet would be a mix up, I got denied one monday, by wed i picked up my gun.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hmmm ok. but no of those things seem like they would keep him from getting a gun? i surely dont think so imho
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • medic07medic07 Member Posts: 5,222 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would have him check his case disposition on the restraining order to ensure it was expunged.

    There is a slight possibility that it is listed as a conviction on the record of domestic harassment or stalking.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 8,805 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by medic07
    I would have him check his case disposition on the restraining order to ensure it was expunged.

    There is a slight possibility that it is listed as a conviction on the record of domestic harassment or stalking.
    Be best to check into the above and also check to insure that it is no a mix-up of any sort.

    I used to receive holds for anywhere from several hours to several days.

    ( Knowing the buyer personally, has helped the sale go through on several occassions in that there was a hold placed on the sale. The authorities were reassured that the buyer was not the actual individual they had red flagged. )
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bhale187bhale187 Member Posts: 7,798
    edited November -1
    Isn't there a someone you can contact to find out WHY you were denied after a denial?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    Isn't there a someone you can contact to find out WHY you were denied after a denial?


    would nice to for him to find out so he could fix what ever may be holding him back. ANYONE KNOW?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    He can apply for a personal identification number. If that is denied they will tell him why and what he can do (if anything) to change it. It takes a while though.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by He Dog
    He can apply for a personal identification number. If that is denied they will tell him why and what he can do (if anything) to change it. It takes a while though.


    who does he ask for the PIN? FFL he is buying from, or some gov agency?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    Isn't there a someone you can contact to find out WHY you were denied after a denial?

    Yes. There are formal established procedures. Ask the FFL for the reference number of the inquiry and the instructions for finding out the reasons for the denial.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by andrewsw16
    quote:Originally posted by bhale187
    Isn't there a someone you can contact to find out WHY you were denied after a denial?

    Yes. There are formal established procedures. Ask the FFL for the reference number of the inquiry and the instructions for finding out the reasons for the denial.


    oh ok thanks will have him do that tmrw. he wants to go hunting this yr.

    Can i lend him a rifle IN THE WOODS ONLY and get in trouble? since i have a few rifles
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Oso2142Oso2142 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fl23in


    Can i lend him a rifle IN THE WOODS ONLY and get in trouble? since i have a few rifles


    Yes, you can/I give you permission. Also, I give you permission to enjoy the food in jail, too.

    I mean, as far as you know, HE CAN NOT OWN A FIREARM!!! So, I axe ya: why in the hell would give him one of yours? Oh, I got it, so you can be two fine fellers, traipsing through the woods, bonding, and on the hunt.

    Now, if you knew nothing about the denial, and you had full-faith that he could legally own a firearm, AFAIK, you'd be good to go.

    Now, of course, I'm just messing w/you, a bit, but, I wouldn't lend him one of my rifles, after I gained knowledge that he failed the NICS. [;)]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gunman760Gunman760 Member Posts: 140 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here in PA they do the same backround check for a CC permit as I do when they purchase a gun. There is also an appeals form for the denied buyer if he wants to challenge the NICS or PICS denial. It may have something to do with someone else having a similar name that has a criminal record.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dongizmodongizmo Member Posts: 14,477 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    He needs to get the NTN number from the dealer he was trying to purchase from and appeal the denial, here is a link to the appeal form, follow the instructions there: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/appeals/nics_appeals_brochure_eng
    Don
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Oso2142
    quote:Originally posted by fl23in


    Can i lend him a rifle IN THE WOODS ONLY and get in trouble? since i have a few rifles


    Yes, you can/I give you permission. Also, I give you permission to enjoy the food in jail, too.

    I mean, as far as you know, HE CAN NOT OWN A FIREARM!!! So, I axe ya: why in the hell would give him one of yours? Oh, I got it, so you can be two fine fellers, traipsing through the woods, bonding, and on the hunt.

    Now, if you knew nothing about the denial, and you had full-faith that he could legally own a firearm, AFAIK, you'd be good to go.

    Now, of course, I'm just messing w/you, a bit, but, I wouldn't lend him one of my rifles, after I gained knowledge that he failed the NICS. [;)]


    yea key word being OWN. He will not be taking it home, just using for a hunt. i did not know if he could still use one. he wants to shoot a hog on a hunt some of are goin on. might have seemed dumb but that is why this is a question section. I did not know so i asked
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MFIMFI Member Posts: 7,899 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No one that has gotten a denial on a 4473 has picked up a gun two days later. The process takes much longer than that. States that use the ATF work this way : If you are denied the FFL gives you a rebuttal form with the NTN number on it, you then send in the form asking for reasons for your denial. THE ATF then has 30 days to tell you why. If you can get your record straightened out with them they will then give you a chance to go back to the FFL and purchase the firearm or a firearm that you want.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • abcguns2abcguns2 Member Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK,
    We see this here at the shop on a regular basis !
    He should (must) do the appeal process !!!!
    and,
    MFI : Wrong on that one ! we have had the state (Tn) do an over turn with-in 24 hours (on a regular basis) !!!
    Thanks !!!
    d.a.stearns.........................a.k.a...........SKEEZIX...
    Gunsmith / LEO
    Athens , Tn











    www.allamericangunshop.com
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    If the dude has any type felony, he cannot possess a firearm in most states. Some states there are allowances for a hunting shotgun, or BP.
    Some state will deny if one has a certain amount of DUI,s or misdemeaner convictions in a certain period of time. He may not be telling you everything.. Before you loan him a gun make damn sure he has no Felony convictions..
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vicg1vicg1 Member Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fl23in
    quote:Originally posted by Oso2142
    quote:Originally posted by fl23in


    Can i lend him a rifle IN THE WOODS ONLY and get in trouble? since i have a few rifles


    Yes, you can/I give you permission. Also, I give you permission to enjoy the food in jail, too.

    I mean, as far as you know, HE CAN NOT OWN A FIREARM!!! So, I axe ya: why in the hell would give him one of yours? Oh, I got it, so you can be two fine fellers, traipsing through the woods, bonding, and on the hunt.

    Now, if you knew nothing about the denial, and you had full-faith that he could legally own a firearm, AFAIK, you'd be good to go.

    Now, of course, I'm just messing w/you, a bit, but, I wouldn't lend him one of my rifles, after I gained knowledge that he failed the NICS. [;)]


    yea key word being OWN. He will not be taking it home, just using for a hunt. i did not know if he could still use one. he wants to shoot a hog on a hunt some of are goin on. might have seemed dumb but that is why this is a question section. I did not know so i asked


    Poster used the word "own" but "posess" may be closer... Usually a denied person (if not a mistake) is not allowed to have a firearm... he should fill out an appeal form and get it squared away. I have seen restraining orders, even though expired, prevent purchase but they get overturned in the appeal process.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MFIMFI Member Posts: 7,899 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not in a state that uses the Feds for background checks he isn't getting overturned in two days maybe in states that use their own system. In NY we use the feds so it isn't happening here.

    quote:Originally posted by abcguns2
    OK,
    We see this here at the shop on a regular basis !
    He should (must) do the appeal process !!!!
    and,
    MFI : Wrong on that one ! we have had the state (Tn) do an over turn with-in 24 hours (on a regular basis) !!!
    Thanks !!!
    d.a.stearns.........................a.k.a...........SKEEZIX...
    Gunsmith / LEO
    Athens , Tn











    www.allamericangunshop.com
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dongizmodongizmo Member Posts: 14,477 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MFI
    Not in a state that uses the Feds for background checks he isn't getting overturned in two days maybe in states that use their own system. In NY we use the feds so it isn't happening here.

    quote:Originally posted by abcguns2
    OK,
    We see this here at the shop on a regular basis !
    He should (must) do the appeal process !!!!
    and,
    MFI : Wrong on that one ! we have had the state (Tn) do an over turn with-in 24 hours (on a regular basis) !!!
    Thanks !!!
    d.a.stearns.........................a.k.a...........SKEEZIX...
    Gunsmith / LEO
    Athens , Tn











    www.allamericangunshop.com


    I just finished up one with a kid who got in some trouble when he was just out of HS, it took him about 10 months to get his record cleared up....
    Don
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    if you cant "own" it, you cant "posses" it either. firearms laws are not the best place to try to play in the gray areas. people involved in crimes related to guns are generally not amused when someone tries to debate the actual v. metaphorical definitions of words.

    there are two possibilities to my eyes. either his past indiscretions(the ones you know about or perhaps ones you dont) are getting the better of him; or its a case of mistaken identity. they get people mixed up all the time. thats why theres a spot for your social on the form(one unique identifier) and the availability of a pin number(a second unique identifier).

    advise him to go through the appeals process and find out why he was denied in the first place. if it was a case of the wrong person, it should be easily rectified and prevented in the future. if his past troubles are the culprit, the waters deepen, but lots of things can be expunged if they are old enough.

    on the loaning him a gun question, i wouldnt. while your intentions are honorable, it would suck to have his actions come back to bite you in the * and land you in the "prohibited person" category right next to him...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    The procedure for appeals for denial in florida are as follows..

    Go the a local sheriffs office, get a fingerprint card. contact the Florida Firearm Purchase program and get a 'firearm purchase non approval appeal Form,, fill it out with the information and send it along with the fingerprint card to .

    FDLE
    Firearm Purchase Program
    Post Office Box, 1489
    Tallahassee, Florida, 32302-1489

    This is an appeal procedure and criminal history revue by The FDLE..

    Appeal must be received by FDLE within 21 days of the denial..
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 21,974 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Be jacked up his identity was stolen and the guy who stole it is doing time on fedral time. I wonder if the alphabet cops will now do a no knock on his address? Tell him to answer back to them "I'm cooperating, I'm not a negro and you got the Wong house". (The negro bit is from "Bad Boys 2" and the Wong house is from "Thursday").
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    if you cant "own" it, you cant "posses" it either. firearms laws are not the best place to try to play in the gray areas. people involved in crimes related to guns are generally not amused when someone tries to debate the actual v. metaphorical definitions of words.

    there are two possibilities to my eyes. either his past indiscretions(the ones you know about or perhaps ones you dont) are getting the better of him; or its a case of mistaken identity. they get people mixed up all the time. thats why theres a spot for your social on the form(one unique identifier) and the availability of a pin number(a second unique identifier).

    advise him to go through the appeals process and find out why he was denied in the first place. if it was a case of the wrong person, it should be easily rectified and prevented in the future. if his past troubles are the culprit, the waters deepen, but lots of things can be expunged if they are old enough.

    on the loaning him a gun question, i wouldnt. while your intentions are honorable, it would suck to have his actions come back to bite you in the * and land you in the "prohibited person" category right next to him...


    ok thank you that is what i was wondering. Figured ^ that was the case. yes i dont want to get in trouble just tryi to help out a family member have a good time. But since ^ is the case he wont be hunting this yr.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Classic095
    The procedure for appeals for denial in florida are as follows..

    Go the a local sheriffs office, get a fingerprint card. contact the Florida Firearm Purchase program and get a 'firearm purchase non approval appeal Form,, fill it out with the information and send it along with the fingerprint card to .

    FDLE
    Firearm Purchase Program
    Post Office Box, 1489
    Tallahassee, Florida, 32302-1489

    This is an appeal procedure and criminal history revue by The FDLE..

    Appeal must be received by FDLE within 21 days of the denial..



    thank you sir. That will help him alot
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.