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Here's why 38 Special +P was invented.

DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
edited March 2015 in General Discussion
The world was flooded with cheap, imported revolvers in 38 Special caliber. The ammo makers didn't want to get sued by the owners of such guns when they blew up. So in 1972 +P was invented. It wasn't a new level of performance, it was simply a new name for what had been the accepted pressure level for the cartridge. Then they started calling loads that were some 2,000 PSI lower than standard the new standard. The new lower pressure loads usually worked out OK in the crappy guns and the ammo makers were protected because they could say use +P only in guns approved for it. Of course +P is zero concern in a well made gun like a Smith or a Colt.

People think +P was a new, high power load. Nope. Just a new name is all. The mainstream +P is loaded to around 20,000 PSI and that is no higher than the standard loads before 1972.

Here's an RG that blew up on the 3rd round of +P. I'm surprised at this but maybe the gun was flawed, really worn, or perhaps it wasn't mainstream +P but one of the specialty loads that run 22,000 PSI. I wouldn't expect such a dramatic event. Instead I would envision greatly increased wear with +P is this revolver. But it blew up, so there you go. I also wonder that the barrel blew and not the chamber. Might have an obstruction? But the owner blamed the ammo.

The owner actually asked if the gun could be repaired. I said throw it away. In fact, it should have been thrown away before firing.


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Too old to live...too young to die...

Comments

  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    A little JB Weld ... a little paint ...
  • Smitty500magSmitty500mag Member Posts: 13,623 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Doc
    I also wonder that the barrel blew and not the chamber. Might have an obstruction? But the owner blamed the ammo.


    I could almost guarantee you that there was a bullet lodged in the barrel that caused the barrel to blow instead of the cylinder.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,540 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Any gun will blow if the ammo is double charged , wrong powder from hand load. RG was a cheap import and is an insult to their countries other fine weapons. I wish you could shoot my German EAA Bounty hunter .357 single action. Sure cheaper than a colt but made just as well. Parts are interchangeable. Most the alloy frames small J frame older smiths are not rated for +p .. shoot at your own risk.
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well that is an interesting nugget of knowledge! Thanks![;)]
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    Well that is an interesting nugget of knowledge! Thanks![;)]


    ++
  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My dept. had a lot of S&W 36s and 37s in the early 70s. When they started buying +P ammo, we had several just fall apart on the range, screws stripped out, cylinders swelled. Wasn't only the 37s either.
    So they picked up a bunch of Model 10s and let us have the Chiefs for $65. I got an Airweight. I would never fire +Ps in it.[8D]
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you call S&W they will advise you to avoid +P in revolvers that are not model number stamped (1958). This is odd because the last gun made without a model number is absolutely no different than the first one made with the model number other than the number being stamped on it.

    I know a man who shot 1,000 +Ps through an alloy S&W as a test. Nothing happened. Elmer Keith wrote of shooting 38/44 ammo (makes +P look like a BB gun) in an alloy J frame with no effect to the gun.

    All the hype over +P is just that...hype.

    I fired 500 Remington +Ps and 600 of my own +P+ loads (125 JHP at 1150 FPS) through this already well worn M&P made in 1942. Nothing happened.


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    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,503 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Before that last trigger pull, nothing had ever happened to that RG either, Doc.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    3 on the RG...1,100 on the M&P and still counting. Maybe 25,000 or so to go. Hey, 4 consecutive 2 letter words in a sentence!
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    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    Before that last trigger pull, nothing had ever happened to that RG either, Doc.


    The wife always asks me if it is safe to shoot a pistol or rifle that I just purchased that is at or over 100 years of age.

    I always tell her that it looks like it worked fine the last time it was fired.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • kannoneerkannoneer Member Posts: 3,402 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GreatGuns has nailed it. Barrels don't blow from high chamber pressure, the cylinders do. If it was a high-pressure burst, the top of the cylinder would be blown with the topstrap bulged or blown completely away. I have seen it many times.
    This pic shows a frame fracture caused by a mis-aligned round. The barrel is not shown but I would imagine it has little or no damage.
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