In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

DHS says holow points safer for us C&P

torosapotorosapo Member Posts: 4,946
edited March 2013 in General Discussion
That is why they need to buy 1.6 billion rounds in next 5 years.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/29/homeland-security-buying-pricey-ammo-as-department-wide-cuts-take-hold/

Howard notes that use of hollow-point ammo by law enforcement officers is more efficient and even safer for the public.

"It (hollow points) cuts down on ricochets which means few bystanders will be hit. Hollow points rarely go through one target," He said.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/29/homeland-security-buying-pricey-ammo-as-department-wide-cuts-take-hold/#ixzz2OzSMHFdx

Comments

  • CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hmm...I wonder why hollow points are illegal in NJ??? If they are safer for the public, why can't the peons own hollow point ammo???
  • torosapotorosapo Member Posts: 4,946
    edited November -1
    I've never heard of any LEO using hollow points.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    New Jersey bans things because the state is run by frightened people. When something scares the easily frightened they tend to pass laws to tell their fears to go away. Never works though.

    DHS buys hollow point bullets for training because someone said the over 100,000 LEO's under DHS should practice with same ammo they carry for duty. Some police I know agree, some say it's bullpuckey. Seems to be disagreement out there among cops.

    Doesn't matter, DHS should buy the cheapest stuff they can get for practice.

    On the other end of it, hollow point bullets are safer for the innocent because they tend not to go all the way thru bad guys. That's the entire point.

    The ricochet claim sounds like the blather of an ignorant individual.
  • CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by torosapo
    I've never heard of any LEO using hollow points.


    I have never heard of a Law Enforcement Agency that DOES NOT use hollow point ammo! If there are any police departments using FMJ or ball ammo, please chime in, I'd be very surprised!
  • torosapotorosapo Member Posts: 4,946
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CS8161
    quote:Originally posted by torosapo
    I've never heard of any LEO using hollow points.


    I have never heard of a Law Enforcement Agency that DOES NOT use hollow point ammo! If there are any police departments using FMJ or ball ammo, please chime in, I'd be very surprised!


    I guess I was misinformed, but then again I haven't asked any in quite a few years what they carry.
  • wiplashwiplash Member Posts: 7,145 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by torosapo
    quote:Originally posted by CS8161
    quote:Originally posted by torosapo
    I've never heard of any LEO using hollow points.


    I have never heard of a Law Enforcement Agency that DOES NOT use hollow point ammo! If there are any police departments using FMJ or ball ammo, please chime in, I'd be very surprised!


    I guess I was misinformed, but then again I haven't asked any in quite a few years what they carry.


    Yup, they use Hollow points.
    There is no such thing as Liberal Men, only Liberal Women with Penises.'
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Much bigger concern is that hollow points are not NATO compliant, so who are they for ?
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
    Much bigger concern is that hollow points are not NATO compliant, so who are they for ?


    Cops in the USA are not under the auspices of NATO.
  • kannoneerkannoneer Member Posts: 3,401 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Exclusively hollow points, and I agree. If you need to shoot someone, you need to use the most effective ammo available. The only time for ball ammo is shooting at a vehicle to disable it.
    I could never live in NJ, so I won't try to.
  • wiplashwiplash Member Posts: 7,145 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kannoneer
    Exclusively hollow points, and I agree. If you need to shoot someone, you need to use the most effective ammo available. The only time for ball ammo is shooting at a vehicle to disable it.
    I could never live in NJ, so I won't try to.


    Thats what Spike strips are used for now [;)]
    There is no such thing as Liberal Men, only Liberal Women with Penises.'
  • CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    New Jersey bans things because the state is run by frightened people. When something scares the easily frightened they tend to pass laws to tell their fears to go away. Never works though.

    DHS buys hollow point bullets for training because someone said the over 100,000 LEO's under DHS should practice with same ammo they carry for duty. Some police I know agree, some say it's bullpuckey. Seems to be disagreement out there among cops.

    Doesn't matter, DHS should buy the cheapest stuff they can get for practice.

    On the other end of it, hollow point bullets are safer for the innocent because they tend not to go all the way thru bad guys. That's the entire point.

    The ricochet claim sounds like the blather of an ignorant individual.


    They just want to buy them before the UN treaty goes into effect...


    36737d1334000666-lets-hear-some-great-thoughts-about-9-11-01-events-1333156269715.jpg
  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 60,159 ******
    edited November -1
    ...there you have it,,it's for our own good,,,[;)][;)]
  • CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hollow is spelled with 2 lls by the way.
  • wiplashwiplash Member Posts: 7,145 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
    Hollow is spelled with 2 lls by the way.


    Made me check! [:D]
    There is no such thing as Liberal Men, only Liberal Women with Penises.'
  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hollow points are not allowed by the Geneva convention So theyust not figure on using them on foreign enemys..... Right?
  • torosapotorosapo Member Posts: 4,946
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
    Hollow is spelled with 2 lls by the way.


    Mea Culpa, i don't have spell check on this computer yet.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cowdoc
    Hollow points are not allowed by the Geneva convention So theyust not figure on using them on foreign enemys..... Right?


    The Geneva Conventions do not ban hollow point bullets. The Hague Conference of 1899 did that. Applies only to soldiers during an international war between nations.

    Civilian police are not afflicted by this document.
  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My point exactly is all this cow cookies about dept of homeland security protecting us against foreign terrorist is just that ... cow cookies.... My grandma grew up in hitler Germany , she said the similarities here and Germany are so close that people here are foolish to thin other wise
  • wiplashwiplash Member Posts: 7,145 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by torosapo
    quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
    Hollow is spelled with 2 lls by the way.


    Mea Culpa, i don't have spell check on this computer yet.


    You just got Busted by the "Top" Spell check Cop! [:D]

    And you got on me about reading Books. [:0]
    There is no such thing as Liberal Men, only Liberal Women with Penises.'
  • CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    quote:Originally posted by cowdoc
    Hollow points are not allowed by the Geneva convention So theyust not figure on using them on foreign enemys..... Right?


    The Geneva Conventions do not ban hollow point bullets. The Hague Conference of 1899 did that. Applies only to soldiers during an international war between nations.

    Civilian police are not afflicted by this document.


    That was his entire point....

    please try to read.
  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cowdoc
    Hollow points are not allowed by the Geneva convention So theyust not figure on using them on foreign enemys..... Right?

    Wrong. It was the Hague Conventions not Geneva, and the U.S. never signed the part of the Hague Conventions that included hollow point ammo. It just became U.S. policy to try to adhere to it, but it wasn't a strict policy. Even today, some U.S. troops are issued hollow point rifle ammo anyway. The Hague Convention is pretty much obsolete since it also banned such practices as flame throwers and putting armament on aircraft. [:D][:D]
  • Waco WaltzWaco Waltz Member Posts: 10,836 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Who cares if it was the Hague or the Geneva Conventions? I think the main point is the use was banned by international law.

    But we know we can ignore it here anyway even if there was a war with Mexico because actually having the force of the international law enforced inside the USA is obviously a conspiracy theory.
  • FatstratFatstrat Member Posts: 9,147
    edited November -1
    I'm not convinced of the truth in the statement that Hollow Points cost twice what solid points cost.
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by torosapo
    I've never heard of any LEO using hollow points.



    I've been a Police Officer for 17 years, and in that time I have always been issued hollow points for duty carry. Federal Hydra Shoks, Speer Gold Dots and Win Ranger SXTs. I'd second previous statements that I haven't heard of a PD that carried FMJ for duty.


    I've read folks, particularly military folks stating that Feds don't train with JHPs and I'd dispute that. I know for a fact that our local Field Office for the ATF only trains with their duty ammo in their pistols. They are at the Range quarterly and they only shoot Win Ranger SXTs for training and duty. The only thing they use FMJ for training is in .223/5.56.
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
    Much bigger concern is that hollow points are not NATO compliant, so who are they for ?


    Cops in the USA are not under the auspices of NATO.


    Yep. Same answer my uncle gave me when I asked how come he used them in his gun @ the court house.
  • bigoutsidebigoutside Member Posts: 19,443
    edited November -1
    The cats out of the bag...





    This means we are leaving NATO!!!
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Masaad Ayoob has long argued that HPs should be called "safety bullets" if a citizen is sued or charged following a defensive shooting and the bullets become an issue in court.
    ....................................................................................................
    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,522 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    New Jersey bans things because the state is run by frightened people. When something scares the easily frightened they tend to pass laws to tell their fears to go away. Never works though.

    DHS buys hollow point bullets for training because someone said the over 100,000 LEO's under DHS should practice with same ammo they carry for duty. Some police I know agree, some say it's bullpuckey. Seems to be disagreement out there among cops.

    Doesn't matter, DHS should buy the cheapest stuff they can get for practice.

    On the other end of it, hollow point bullets are safer for the innocent because they tend not to go all the way thru bad guys. That's the entire point.

    The ricochet claim sounds like the blather of an ignorant individual.


    This state is not run by scared or frightened people, but rather by a bunch of liberal democrats that the north elected. They didn't win one county in the southern part of the state where the farmers and rednecks live[:D]

    Whats a shame is, we have too many big cities with too many Blacks that vote democrat and then complain about their lost freedoms. If you have ever been in the southern part of NJ, It is all farms and wood lands. Most people see NJ from Newark airport and think big industry and cities. I can drive the 50 miles from my home to the shore, through the woods and never see a house or car. It called the wharton state forest.

    I do agree with you all on one thing, It really does suck living in a state of democrats with such strict gun laws.
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 40,161 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cowdoc
    My point exactly is all this cow cookies about dept of homeland security protecting us against foreign terrorist is just that ... cow cookies.... My grandma grew up in hitler Germany , she said the similarities here and Germany are so close that people here are foolish to thin other wise
    There ya go folks, take it from someone who's been there.
  • cce1302cce1302 Member Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's not "hollow point" ammunition that is prohibited by the Hague.

    quote:The confusion began in 1899 at the First Hague Peace Conference, which adopted a Declaration Concerning Expanding Bullets in which governments agreed to abstain from military use of ".bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which do not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions [skiving]." The declaration was more political than humanitarian, targeting the British .303 caliber Mk. III cartridge with its AL 9402 hollow point bullet in part due to the British War against the Boers in South Africa, notwithstanding the fact that the Mk III was never employed in that conflict.

    http://sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1262
  • MudderChuckMudderChuck Member Posts: 4,105
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Charles Johnson
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by cowdoc
    My point exactly is all this cow cookies about dept of homeland security protecting us against foreign terrorist is just that ... cow cookies.... My grandma grew up in hitler Germany , she said the similarities here and Germany are so close that people here are foolish to thin other wise
    There ya go folks, take it from someone who's been there.


    On no! Haven't you heard? All the really smart people say "It's a Conspiracy!"
    It's just plain dumb to think our benevolent and benign government might do something that's not in the best interest of it subjects.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_shirts
  • Leeroy JenkinsLeeroy Jenkins Member Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by torosapo
    That is why they need to buy 1.6 billion rounds in next 5 years.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/29/homeland-security-buying-pricey-ammo-as-department-wide-cuts-take-hold/

    Howard notes that use of hollow-point ammo by law enforcement officers is more efficient and even safer for the public.

    "It (hollow points) cuts down on ricochets which means few bystanders will be hit. Hollow points rarely go through one target," He said.



    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/29/homeland-security-buying-pricey-ammo-as-department-wide-cuts-take-hold/#ixzz2OzSMHFdx


    If that is the case, then why aren't they buying Frangible Ammunition???????
  • theranger1theranger1 Member Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's all Conspiracy! They can spin it all to hell. Wanda wait and see what happens...Not mee...Lock and loaded...[:(!]
Sign In or Register to comment.