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I was really sorry to hear this.

DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
edited January 2017 in General Discussion
During his confirmation hearing Jeff sessions said that enforcing federal gun control laws would reduce crime and violence. I don't believe there is any evidence to show that any gun law anywhere has reduced crime and violence and in fact just the opposite has been proven many times. When restrictive gun laws are enacted crime goes up. Perhaps he is not the champion of the Second Amendment we hoped he would be. I have reached the conclusion that every gun law at every level is contrary to the Bill of Rights and is totally ineffective.
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Too old to live...too young to die...

Comments

  • woodhogwoodhog Member Posts: 13,115 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    hopefully, he's just doing what every politician does-say anything to get elected/appointed.
  • HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    They are already Laws. He is gonna be the Attorney General. He must answer that question in the affirmative....Until, that is, said laws are rendered unconstitutional or are removed!
  • Wild TurkeyWild Turkey Member Posts: 2,425 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    But also consider how many criminals get to walk after a plea deal and commit more crimes.

    If the current laws were enforced how many bad guys would go away for a long time?
  • Ditch-RunnerDitch-Runner Member Posts: 25,357 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Chicago is a good example we hear all the time on the news how the "bad guys" walk away and never charged with federal gun laws
    like the 5 year mandatory jail time for the use of a gun in a crime
    I have also heard ( no hard facts right now ) Ol big ears pardoned some they had time for using a gun during there crime . so there you have it they just want to disarm the good guys and let the bad guys walk its the guns they really want.
    the only law I am Ok with use a gun in a crime and no plea deal 5 years no if ands or butts

    Hopefully trump and his team ( including a new supreme court ) will put a end to all the BS they will have control and need to pass a law no state or area can make up there own laws that go against the 2nd amendment of private gun ownership no matter same with ammo and magazines in any way shape or form , also toss in nation wide right to carry no local laws can supersede it
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Who needs gun laws just outlaw murder, rape and robbery and such then the guns won't matter. Duh??!!

    [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    By the logic displayed here, the laws against murder, theft, and jaywalking ought to be removed from the books. Is there any evidence to suggest that having those laws has reduced crime and violence?

    Having laws on the books will not have any impact. Actually enforcing those laws might. There is a difference that seems to escape peoples' notice.

    It might be wise to look into what Project Exile did in Richmond, VA in the late 90s. Vigorous, unyielding prosecution of federal firearms violations resulted in a serious reduction in murders in 3 years. As I recall the city dropped from 4th or 5th in per capita murders nationwide to somewhere in the mid 70ths. The number of murders was 25% of what it was when the effort began.

    Criminals were admitting that when they began to understand that if they were caught with an illegal firearm or using one in a crime...they stopped carrying guns.

    I have said this many times. Rather than just arguing against more laws, we need to point out that the current ones aren't being enforced. We allow the Left to claim that there is still crime, 'so therefore we need another law'. We do this because too many of us are decidedly ignorant of facts. You will never win an argument with a Leftist using 'feelings'. You will have to use facts. But first you need to have some.

    Here is one that any of us should have at our fingertips: Where do 'Felon in Possession' charges plea bargained away rank in your city or state ? If you don't know that, you are lost. In Oregon for the last 20 years, F-i-P is one of the top two charges plea bargained away.

    Now guess what you can do with information like that when some idiot leftist says 'we need to keep the guns away from those who shouldn't have them'?
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Very little evidence laws prevent crime. But murder, rape, robbery etc are actions and you can make actions illegal. Making objects illegal has never worked and any and all gun laws run afoul of the Second Amendment.
    ....................................................................................................
    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
    By the logic displayed here, the laws against murder, theft, and jaywalking ought to be removed from the books. Is there any evidence to suggest that having those laws has reduced crime and violence?

    Having laws on the books will not have any impact. Actually enforcing those laws might. There is a difference that seems to escape peoples' notice.

    It might be wise to look into what Project Exile did in Richmond, VA in the late 90s. Vigorous, unyielding prosecution of federal firearms violations resulted in a serious reduction in murders in 3 years. As I recall the city dropped from 4th or 5th in per capita murders nationwide to somewhere in the mid 70ths. The number of murders was 25% of what it was when the effort began.

    Criminals were admitting that when they began to understand that if they were caught with an illegal firearm or using one in a crime...they stopped carrying guns.

    I have said this many times. Rather than just arguing against more laws, we need to point out that the current ones aren't being enforced. We allow the Left to claim that there is still crime, 'so therefore we need another law'. We do this because too many of us are decidedly ignorant of facts. You will never win an argument with a Leftist using 'feelings'. You will have to use facts. But first you need to have some.

    Here is one that any of us should have at our fingertips: Where do 'Felon in Possession' charges plea bargained away rank in your city or state ? If you don't know that, you are lost. In Oregon for the last 20 years, F-i-P is one of the top two charges plea bargained away.

    Now guess what you can do with information like that when some idiot leftist says 'we need to keep the guns away from those who shouldn't have them'?




    Quite well said. Best post I've read in a very long time.
  • mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Doc
    Very little evidence laws prevent crime. But murder, rape, robbery etc are actions and you can make actions illegal. Making objects illegal has never worked and any and all gun laws run afoul of the Second Amendment.


    Disagree. A felon being in possession of a gun is what is illegal, not the gun itself.

    Every amendment has some restrictions placed up it. Every single one, and court after court after court has ruled that some restrictions are perfectly reasonable. We have the freedom of religion, but you're not allowed to carry out human sacrifices as part of your religion. We have the freedom of the press, but you're not allowed to make and publish child pornography. We have the right to keep and bear arms, but convicted felons aren't allowed to own guns.

    A person can reasonably argue that some restrictions go too far, and over time the extent of restrictions has waxed and waned.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Richmond VA was having a major crime problem. A young US Atty started working with the City PD.

    City PD got you for assault- but you are a Felon in Possession of a Firearm? WHAM! Federal charge. No plea bargain. 5 years, no probation- AND you were going to a Federal prison away from your homies.

    Known as Operation Exile, we got a major drop in violent crime AND a drop in bad guys with guns. And then Janet Reno had a snit fit about it, and it was quashed.

    Stop with the damned catch-and-release, stop with the let's-make-a-deal, increase the CERTAINTY of punishment- and the crap stops.
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Doc
    Very little evidence laws prevent crime. But murder, rape, robbery etc are actions and you can make actions illegal. Making objects illegal has never worked and any and all gun laws run afoul of the Second Amendment.

    As I said, laws must be enforced to have any impact. A felon picking up a gun to carry is an ACTION. As is someone DECIDING to pick up a gun and use it to committ a robbery.

    None of those laws are against an object. They codify a restriction on actions. It is not a violation of the 2nd Amendment to make these restrictions, anymore than it is a violation of the 14th Amendment to have a robbery of larger amounts of money from a bank to carry stiffer penalties than taking a dollar from a lemonade stand.

    Logic. It is our friend.
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Starting to split hairs. DECIDING to do something is no more than thought and thinking is not illegal. It's the acting on the thought that is illegal.

    mlincon- I would not call prohibiting gun possession by a felon a gun law. That's a convicted felon law. I mean gun laws like license to own, waiting periods, banning magazines and gun types, etc.
    ....................................................................................................
    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • victorj19victorj19 Member Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Had a break-in almost 4 years ago. Two pistols taken. A black serial felon arrested eventually. He broke in to the house a day or so after being released from prison for another break-in. Guns were sold and traded for some crack. Convicted under state law and federal law. Both included felon in possession. Federal sentence was 15 years & 7 mo. His mother didn't come to the sentencing. Although selective, the US Attorney Office here (Detroit), does enforce gun laws.
  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not really a gun law. That's a convicted felon law.

    I know, good grief...
    ....................................................................................................
    Too old to live...too young to die...
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Man I heard something on news last night.

    British Police do not carry guns but are considering letting police officers to carry guns DUE TO CHANGING TIMES.

    One of the Brits (higher up's) said with the microphone in front of his mouth that if our police officer's start carrying guns, more criminals and terrorists are going to start carrying guns because they know the police have guns. He must be a Democrat from Chicago. Now that is about the weakest I've ever seen upstairs. OMG

    Wow what a dandy. How would you like to be a Police officers with this guy watching your back???
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Doc
    Not really a gun law. That's a convicted felon law.

    I know, good grief...

    I suggest you stick to posting pictures of your collection. You are seriously unsuited to any substantial discussion.

    Start in with blanket statements about 'any gun law', and when they crumble in the face of countervailing arguments and facts, you try to redefine how many laws and/or angels can dance on the head of a pin if the pinhead is below average size, the angels have abnormally small feet, and the dance step only requires one foot down at a time.

    Yeah. Good grief is about as kind as I can manage.
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