M2 carbine, not M1. class 3 guys help me out?

bobski

i know of an M2 sitting in someones closet from ww2. it has the seymour conn 20 round mags (not 15,) and i just wanted to know what to look for to i.d. it as a true M2, not just an M1 carbine modified. thanks in advance.

former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.

Iroquois Scout

Receiver will say M2 rather then M1. It will have a round bolt rather then the flat bolt of the M1. Magazine catch will have a "tit" on the left side to help hold the larger capacity magazine. The safety will be of the lever type rather then the M1 push button type. The stock will have a slot on the left side for the selector lever, while on the right side, under the edge of the wood, the stock will be hollowed out for the disconector bar. The slide will have the "hood" which covers the receiver ring when the bolt is closed,it will also be sloped at the front to slide over the disconector bar. The sear is also different in that it has a steped nose. The rear sight will be the late war adjustable type. The front barrel band will have the bayonet lug. Serial numbers will be very late WWII or Korean war. For the whole thing to work all of the M2 parts must be present includeing the selector lever and it's spring.

bambihunter

Wow, now that was an answer!
Good post Scout! [8D]

gap1916

If it was manufactured before October 23rd 1944 it is not a true M2. The M2 was adopted on August 16th 1945. My 2 cents. [8D]

Greg
Former
USMC
ANGLICO

nmyers

Well, the first thing you want to look for is the manufacturer; most were made by Inland, but some were made by Winchester. The "2" in the "M2" will be handstamped on the Winchesters, and on early Inlands; later Inlands will have the "2" machine stamped. And, of course, you need to know all your part variations, as it may have been rebuilt by an arsenal before it was stolen.

You can also look at the manufacturers name on the ATF Form 4. Now, I know that Bobski knows this, but for the benefit of other readers who may not, an M2 that is not registered with BATF is worth 10 years in federal prison. Even if you take off all the M2 components, the receiver is contraband if it is marked M2.

Of course, I'm not sure that I correctly interpreted Bobski's definition of "true". An M1 carbine (of any make) modified by a US armory to an M2 is considered by many to be a "true" M2, & it is also considered a C&R. On the other hand, I would think that any military or commercial carbine modified to M2 configuration commercially (as shown on the Form 4) would not be considered a "true" M2 by most folks.

Neal

bobski

youve all been a big help. the last time i saw it i was a lad. but now im a skilled gun collector. i will give it the once over the next time im in the fellows area. he's an old timer vet and he has a lot of pics to back him up. it appears he was close friends with a class 3 dealer who passed away and as many know, any gun that is left in the possesion of a dealer at the time of his closing shop, or death becomes the property of the family and can not be sold unless to another class 3 dealer. this fellow had so many parts and stuff, he could supply the 82nd airborne. so, these guns and or parts somehow found there way thru family into his home. is there paper? odds are at one time, but i cant and wont ask if it is now! on any quiet summer night, all thru the woods in the area of his home, you can hear brrrrraaaaap, braaaaap, bum bum bum bumbbum, bum bumb bumbm, dum dum dum dum dum dum from all the owners around. heck, theyre so old, the guns must knock them down when they fire them. yep......its that deep in the woods! and by golly, its the kinda america i like! thanks again.

p3skyking

Bob,
I recently had a situation where a gentleman had an M2 that had started life as an M1. The 2 was an overstamp. ATF says once a machinegun, ALWAYS a machine gun. Even though it was missing all the trick parts it still had the offending numeral on the receiver.

It was a 7,000,000 range 1945 Inland which was a maybe it is, maybe it isn't a M2 number.

I believe the offending 2 was changed back to the original 1 and everyone lived happily ever after.

v35

As I recall there was no difference between M1 & M2 receivers except in the marking. It seems likely the subject gun is marked M1 so if necessary it can revert back to an M1. The stock and bolt change aren't necessary but you have to change out the whole trigger guard with internal parts plus the slide, disconnector lever, selector and selector spring.
I don't know how many M2s and arsenal conversions to M2 came to Korea but by '53-54 all 7th Div. carbines had been converted to M2 at Division Ordnance level. As I recall, bolt changeover to the round style wasn't a requirement. As they came in, the thin forended stocks were changed to the potbellied style that better resisted cracking. Some superceded parts such as sights, obsolete safeties and magazine catches were changed out as they came in. Records of these conversions and updates probably didn't survive but arsenal conversions may have. So unless verifiable it could be anybodies guess if the subject carbine was a military or civilian conversion.
We also updated any 1911 pistols that came in to the A-1 configuration
with the longer tang grip safety, an A-1 mainspring housing and sometimes the trigger (we had 3 styles). Collectors may look askance at the result but these guns were updated by official directive and were configured correctly for the period.

The Rok Army had a lot of carbines and I can't speak for those.