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Pair of Winchester's value and age

marksillmarksill Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
edited May 2006 in Ask the Experts
I have a Winchester Model 12 slide action shotgun, 20 gauge, 2 3/4 chamber, IMP CYL marked, s/n 762807. Blueing is at 100%, buttstock has a small chip/depression on it, slide wood is very good. My dealer says it is not a reblue and has no idea of it's age, he did say it was a field grade. Would anyone know the year of manufacture and ball park value in 95%+ condition overall?
I also have a Winchester Model 61-22 S.L.OR LR, slide action rifle. Original blueing about 95%+, wooden buttstock and slide wood very good condition. S/N is 80763, it is a take down model with the take down screw on the left side of the receiver, and has a steel checkered butt plate. Would anyone know the year of manufacture and ball park value in 95%+ condition overall?
Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your Model 12 was manufactured circa 1938. You did not mention the barrel length which will some affect on the value.

    As for your Model 61, I will need to refer to Ned Schwing's fine reference book (late this evening) to determine the exact month the receiver was made. It appears that you have the basic (standard) variation rifle, and as such in the stated condition, it is worth in the $800 - $1000 range.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Winchester Model 61 serial number 80763 was manufactured in the very early part of May 1947.
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    marksillmarksill Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, thank you very much for your research. The Model 12 has a barrel length of 25 1/4" from front edge of receiver to the muzzle end. The blueing looks too good for a gun this age although it has been properly stored. What would you estimate the value if original blueing? What would you estimate the value if reblued?
    Thanks, Mark
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    Old hickoryOld hickory Member Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Improved cylinders are not at all common. Your barrel is 26". Pictures help but going by your word I'd put it at $900 and maybe more if it is really as good as you say. Imp cyl make up about 3% of the barrel choices that people made in 20 guage. I have a 1939 16 guage in Imp. cyl 26" and it makes a good shooter out of anyone who uses it!
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by marksill
    Bert, thank you very much for your research. The Model 12 has a barrel length of 25 1/4" from front edge of receiver to the muzzle end. The blueing looks too good for a gun this age although it has been properly stored. What would you estimate the value if original blueing? What would you estimate the value if reblued?
    Thanks, Mark


    If it is truly a 95%+ condition, with a 26-inch IMP CYL choke, I would estimate it is worth $1,000 +/- 10% or so. If it has been reblued, cut that value by at least 50%. Clear photos of the markings on the gun can quickly clear up the question about the finish.
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    only winchestersonly winchesters Member Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello marksill: If the blueing on your Md 12 is 100% the stocks should be a close second, no worse than 97-98% condition. The easiest way to tell that it's been reblued, thake the barrel assy off the receiver. Look into the receiver at the bolt face, you will see a round ring in front of the bolt. This is the barrel chamber ring. It should be "in the white" just like the breech bolt, NOT Blued. there should be no primer ring or just a faint one on the bolt face also. Also Winchester would polish the face of the receiver white again after blue along with the receiver extention face. Look at the chamber end of the barrel, about the 5 o'clock position, you will see a small screw and lock, this is the adjusting sleeve adjustment, it most certainly should be on the original adjustment, (first notch) no notches above the lock.

    Now an Imp/Cyl choked pre-war 20ga is kind of rare, Winchester didn't introduce that choke until 1931, (cateloged) About 90% of all 20ga guns came with a Modified, (most popular) followed by the Full choke.

    The other 10% came in Imp/Mod, Imp/Cyl, WS-1 or 2 and Cyl chokes.

    Field grade guns came with plain round barrels or Solid Ribbed barrels, since you don't mention a "'Solid Rib" I'll assume it's just a plain round barrel?

    Now if your gun is truely all original in the stated condition, the value will be what someone is willing to pay. Most of that would be how you market it. IE word of mouth, local newspaper, national publication, one of the internet listing sights, or auction sites such as GunBroker here. If you had good detail pictures, showing the barrel legend, face of the reciever and bolt, the over all gun, it would not surprize me to see it go for $1000-$1300.

    Now if it's been reblued, alot would be determined how it was done. There are a number of Gunsmiths who specialize in restoring to original condition, and those who just hot blue and machine polish the heck out of it. If it's the later, I would still expect it to go $400-$700 simply because of the rare choke. Proper restoration, $400-$900.

    Without pictures one is really guessing. But I'm always leary on any pre-war Winchester that's 100% people didn't buy them to store in the closet, they bought them to use, especially field grade guns.

    Would love to see a few pictures, if you can't post any, you can email them to me at; winchester12@msn.com

    Regards Dave
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