1911 in 9mm

coffinhandler

Have several 1911's all in .45ACP, do any of the gun manufacturers turn out a 1911 in 9mm today?

coffinhandler

I was out shooting my Norinco 1911 45 acp, along with my Star Super B 9mm. I love the slim grip of the Star. I then wondered why a company like Rock Island does not make a 1911 9mm in the 400-500 dollar range. I know that numerous manufacturers make 1911 9mm's, but their price tag is always around 1,000 or more. Could a manufacturer produce a 1911 in 9mm for less, or is it too difficult, thus justifying the price. Could the problem be that there is not enough demand for that caliber. It would be much cheaper to shoot than 45ACP or 38 Super, even though I enjoy each of them.

perry shooter

not enough demand . you can buy aftermarket parts and have one frame that will shoot both. You will need Complete slide and barrel + ejector. I have one frame that will shoot MANY different Cartridges as well as 177 Pellets

beantownshootah

Manufacturing cost of building a 9mm 1911 is roughly the same as any other (eg .45) 1911-type pistol, with most of the parts interchanging.

There may be a slightly higher manufacturing cost for the 9mm-specific parts because of economy of scale (eg lack of demand and volume), but the difference is pretty small particularly in comparison to the retail price of the finished gun.

The main reason there aren't many cheap 9mm 1911s is because of relatively low demand for these.

In general, the 1911 is a big heavy all-steel gun, and its relatively expensive to manufacture. There aren't that many new $400-500 1911s on the market at all. Most people who want a full sized 9mm want a service-type gun, and the market is saturated with a zillion 9mms to choose from, most of which are lighter, cheaper, and have higher capacity than a 1911.

1911s mainly appeal to either traditionalists (who hate the 9mm as a point of pride!), and competition shooters who like the nice trigger pull of the gun, higher power, and larger hole punched by the fat round. Most people picking a 1911 as a service/duty type gun are going to want the .45. . .again that's the whole point.

In short, there aren't that many people who want the look and feel of a "real" 1911, but in 9mm. If you need a "plinking" 1911, there are a number of .22 conversions (or .45-like .22s) available for that that are cheaper than 9mm.

Meanwhile, with so many manufacturers, the market for 1911s is saturated, and there isn't room for smaller manufacturers to make "niche" guns they can't reliably sell in volume. Conversely, most of the 1911 "specialists" do have 9mms available in custom type guns, with the higher prices justifying lower volumes.

If its any consolation, Taurus is supposed to be coming out with a 9mm version of their 1911 soon, which should cost the same as the .45 version (roughly $500-600).

rsnyder55

Back in the 70's Guns and Ammo did a piece on all the conversions that could be done with a 1911 frame. At the time, it had to be done on a 38 Super frame. I don't remember the specifics, but something about supporting the round or the extractor. Very interesting article.

tsr1965

Para Ordnance offers a 9mm version at a reasonable cost. Actually they are the only ones I have seen that are below the $1000.00 mark. Then slightly above it is Kimber, then the custom guys like Clark, Les Baer, and Wilson, all starting around 2 grand and going up.

Best

bobski

lest we forget, colt made a 9mm and it was a flop. all the other companies took the hint that if COLT flopped, why in blazes would they want to do the same thing?[;)]

the mag, along with the distance from the tip of the bullet to the feed ramp to the breech was one of the main problems.

besides, who wants a single action 9mm these days anyway? its backwards thinking.

jthoresen

Richard,

There's actually a pretty good selection of 1911 9mm's out there. (Much better selection than 10mm 1911's). [:(] The one I have my eye on is the Springfield EMP 9mm. The only problem is you won't find any in the 400-500 dollar range unless you're extremely lucky.

Hawk Carse

Based on Internet Reports, there is a considerable interest in 1911 pattern guns in 9mm P; for the cheaper ammunition and lighter recoil. Does interest equal demand? I know it does in MY case. I LIKE my obsolete single action single stack 9mms.

In the meanwhile, several makers carry on with .38 Supers which offer theoretically better feed reliability at the cost of much more expensive and less widely available ammunition. There have been a number of those rebarrelled to 9mm, even though the payback period for the cost of a barrel is long.

As to manufacturing capacity, at least one parent company makes a 9mm that is sold in the home market but not in the USA; the stroke of a pen could deliver a crate of RIA 9mms and we would see how well they would sell. Taurus, though, has listed several variants of their 1911 mutant that have not been seen in captivity.

dcs shooters

With the new 9mm mags out now, the feeding problems have been cured. That was the main with the 9mm 1911.

rsnyder55

Of course, you could always go with the improved 1911 9mm. The Browning High Power.

beantownshootah

quote:Originally posted by bobski
lest we forget, colt made a 9mm and it was a flop. all the other companies took the hint that if COLT flopped, why in blazes would they want to do the same thing?[;)]

the mag, along with the distance from the tip of the bullet to the feed ramp to the breech was one of the main problems.

besides, who wants a single action 9mm these days anyway? its backwards thinking.

Who wants these?

Well, I know a guy who has one of the older Colts and shoots his all the time. He's an older guy who used to use it for PPC matches with reduced recoil loads he loads. (That's right, reduced recoil 9mm loads!).

Back in the day, he used to shoot the "real thing", but being older and retired and a little arthritic he appreciates the lighter recoil and cost of 9mm. I never asked him about how (or if) he "tweaked" the gun, but it ran well enough for him to compete regularly with it.

I've actually shot it, and its cool. You get a 9mm hole with a .22-like recoil. I put seven shots in around a inch hole at 7 yards with it, so it doesn't seem to hurt for accuracy either, and I didn't have any reliability problems with the few shots I took.

I know another woman who used to shoot one of these. She'd get the "cred" from the "gun guys" on the range for hers, but without the recoil.

As to the Colt "flop", that was then, and this is now. The 1911 is, by all accounts, more popular now than ever, but where is Colt? Arguably all of Colt is a "flop" [:p][}:)]. Who ever thought Smith and Wesson would be selling more 1911s than Colt?

EDIT [response to below to keep thread open]
Bob, I'm not saying you were wrong about Colt's 9mm being a flop, I'm just saying that its not the '70s anymore, and the gun market is different now than it was then. Just because these didn't sell then, doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't sell now (particularly since the kinks have been worked out in the last 25+ years).

There are plenty of people shooting 1911 style guns in 9mm, but mostly in "minor class" type competition. It makes sense for any number of reasons that have already been mentioned, plus keeping the same style gun for different contests. If you check the auction site, there are a number of these up for sale (mostly higher end competition type guns), and they do turn over. The Colts seem to fetch about $850-900 when they turn out (I found three completed sales of these in the last 90 days).

quote:Hawk Carse:
Based on Internet Reports, there is a considerable interest in 1911 pattern guns in 9mm P; for the cheaper ammunition and lighter recoil. Does interest equal demand? I know it does in MY case. I LIKE my obsolete single action single stack 9mms.
Internet who? [:p] Do they make or sell guns? If there is such a demand, why don't they make themselves some money and meet it?

I agree with you, the idea sounds interesting, but empirically, with so many manufacturers selling 1911s right now, you'd think that if there were actually a strong demand for low-end 9mm 1911s, one of them would have figured out that it makes business sense to meet that demand with a supply.

Again, if you just want a "plinker" 1911 there are several decent .22 conversions or 1911-like .22s that will get you there even cheaper than a 9mm.

select-fire

Had a kimber 9mm target. It was not accurate. Went to the browning hp competition 9mm. One accurate pistol. Sure it is single action.. but so is a 1911.

bobski

count how many colt 9mm's sold.
it was a flop.