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straight walled cartridges

woodhogwoodhog Member Posts: 13,115 ✭✭
edited December 2014 in Ask the Experts
I've recently been reading where some Eastern states are now allowing 'straight walled' cartridges, such as .45-70 or I suppose .45 cal for deer hunting. Anyone know the logic behind this?

Comments

  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think it is mainly trying to limit the Max range the bullet will travel if you miss the Deere or close in trees. Bullets from say a 30/06 will carry for MILES straight wall.cases normally at lower velocity and bullet has more drop than one going 3000 FPS

    EDITIn some ways I agree with you BUT our fish & game department do a lot of things that only make sense to them. Va. have over 100 laws that are by each county of the state. . one is Turkey hunting Only on Thanksgiving in the fall in the county I live in Because it is a Tradition . So lets see I get up thanksgiving morning and tell my wife go ahead and pre heat the oven I will get us and the kids and grand kids Turkey dinner might need to have a backup plan."YOU THINK" Some hunting season depend on if you are east or west of a highway that runs through the county we have over 20 different start dates and end dates of deer season.in ONE state. some counties only shot gun some counties Rifle ok But must be 15 feet or higher off the ground in tree stand Common sense & government Rules have no Common Sense. but I will bet you a beer that is their thinking on velocity and need for bullet to drop to the ground Most flat coastal counties are shot gun only once you get into Foot hills then Rifle is OK . with rifle 25/20
    UNDER POWERED IMHO is legal yet 220 swift or 223 is not bullet must be 23 caliber and larger. You may not like their rules but to be legal
    one must follow them.[V][:(!][:(]
  • rongrong Member Posts: 8,459
    edited November -1
    Karl, I agree that a high power rifle can
    carry for miles but I disagree with your logic.
    In order for a round to carry for miles, one would
    have to shoot at quite an elevated angle.Shooting at a deer
    or what ever in the Eastern states, at least in my neck
    of the woods would surprise me if the round went 300yds.
    Now if some clown was on a power line cut, he/she could
    conceivably shoot a long way.
    I just think that the people who make the rules are uninformed
    and somewhat stupid.Mostly stupid
  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It took Ohio too many years to finally get it [xx(]
    When I moved here, (86) we could use pistols with a 5 1/2-10 inch barrel.357 and up. Pissed me off the my T-C super 14 was not legal.
    It took a few years for them to drop the long length [:)]
    Now rifles in those calibers can be use and I can't hunt anymore [B)][xx(]
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,281 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, I had to laugh about the logic (or better, the lack thereof) behind "straight walled" cartridges not being considered capable of long range shots.

    This is an interesting read... maybe the "eastern" states should read it.

    http://powderburns.tripod.com/sharps.html

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/780628/ten-x-cowboy-ammunition-50-90-sharps-500-grain-round-nose-flat-point-box-of-20

    Launching a 675-grain projectile from a straight walled case, and landing it 3600+ yards (2.05 miles) away is just mere childs play for those of us who shoot single shot rifles[^]

    WACA Historian & Life Member

  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    >>I've recently been reading where some Eastern states are now allowing 'straight walled' cartridges, such as .45-70 or I suppose .45 cal for deer hunting. Anyone know the logic behind this?

    Its not ANY "straight walled cartridge", there is an approved list.

    Most of the legal ones rare elatively low velocity pistol cartridges, which over quite a bit more safety over distance (eg from bad shots) than conventional centerfire bottleneck rifle cartridges. So I think that's the logic, a little more safety to distant homes, other people in the woods, etc. See here:

    quote:http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/straight-walled-cartridge-rifles-approved-hunting-white-tailed-deer-ohio

    COLUMBUS, OH - The Ohio Wildlife Council approved new white-tailed deer hunting regulations at its meeting on Wednesday, April 9, according to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR). Among new regulations are decreased deer bag limits in many counties, and hunters may use straight-walled cartridge rifles during the 2014 deer-gun week. The council also voted to remove bobcats from Ohio's list of threatened species.

    Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson. -

    See more at: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/straight-walled-cartridge-rifles-approved-hunting-white-tailed-deer-ohio#sthash.GrnYigAI.dpuf
  • vandj1318vandj1318 Member Posts: 179 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The theory in Ohio for not allowing rifle calibers was because most of the county roads were only 1 mile apart. Yet, any rifle caliber is allowed for hunting coyotes, woodchuck and hogs, should they get here.
  • toolmaniamtoolmaniam Member Posts: 3,213
    edited November -1
    Doesnt make sense to me. I live in Ohio and can shoot coyotes with a .50 Barrett if I so choose but cant use a .270 for deer.
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by toolmaniam
    Doesnt make sense to me. I live in Ohio and can shoot coyotes with a .50 Barrett if I so choose but cant use a .270 for deer.


    WHAT?!!?!? A gun law that doesn't make sense??? [:p]

    Seriously, I agree with you. If you're going to allow 357 MAXIMUM from a rifle, why not .35 Remington which puts out basically the exact same bullet of the same exact size and weight at the same velocity? Both of these put out 200 grain bullets *SLOWER* than the .460SW, which is allowed.

    If you're allowing 45-70, why not 30/30, which shoots a bullet half the weight, but only a little bit faster?

    I'd say that although in practice most of the straight walled cartridges are pretty slow, if you're going to restrict cartridges for putative safety reasons, it probably makes the most sense to restrict them based on muzzle velocity, not cartridge shape.

    The practical difference between coyote and deer is that in Ohio its "open season" on coyotes (ie no closed season, no bag limits). Fewer people do it, its spread out over more time, and the ones doing it are probably a bit more "serious" (ie skilled). Yeah, you "could" use a .50BMG for coyote, but in reality, you know you're not going to, and neither is anyone else. Most hunters are going to keep it "small" and the very few who don't are probably pretty good.

    In contrast, deer season is only a week long. There are a lot more hunters out in the woods all at the same time, and many more of them are novices or relatively unskilled. This greatly increases the risk for a gun-handling related negligence/accident during deer season.

    So that's the "theory". Would it really change anything to allow conventional bottleneck cartridges? Again, per above, there are certain bottleneck cartridges comparable to the permitted centerfire ones, so I don't see how permitting them would change anything.

    Maybe eventually they will do that. . .right now they're "testing the waters" with mostly pistol-cartridges. If things go well maybe they'll add other, non-straight walled ones to the "OK" list. Meanwhile, if I were in Ohio, I'd just be pretty happy I could use centerfire rifle at all now (ie "baby steps").

    Editquote:rsnyder55
    What, no 480 Ruger?

    Bastiges!

    Probably an oversight (or Ruger forgot the bribery check), but hey, you can still fire the .480 Ruger cartridges out of your .475 Linebaugh revolver, so no biggie. [:p]
  • rsnyder55rsnyder55 Member Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What, no 480 Ruger?
  • Dave45-70Dave45-70 Member Posts: 637 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They passed a straight wall cartridge law here in lower Michigan but it eliminates rounds like the 45-70 because the law requires the case length to be no shorter than 1.6" and no longer than 1.8" and 35 caliber or larger. So 44 mag 44 special and 357 should be OK. Dang I wanted to use my Sharps or rolling block next year.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I regularly play with my Sharps Quigley replica, my 1999 vintage 1886 reproduction, and my 1885 BPCR, out to 400 and 500 yards. Not using anything special, they are all chambered in 45-70.

    I use a Missouri Bullet #1 Buffalo on top of 32-34 grains of IMR 4198(Thank you Bert H, for that info...works wonderfully well). With regularity, I can hit a 1 gallon milk jug at 400 yards, and full size deer steel targets at 500.

    All the old timers at the local gun club, love to play with those rifles. They are utterly amazed at not only how easy shooting/recoiling they are, or the distance they are capable of, but the power have once they get there. Yes it takes a while to get there. One could almost have a Marlboro half gone by the time it goes bang to hearing the ding.

    Best
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