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guns with no safety

green milegreen mile Member Posts: 619 ✭✭✭
edited September 2007 in Ask the Experts
Good evening all, I have been debating the issue of having a gun without a safety (like a Glock), or having a gun with a safety(like a taurus). Since I cut my teeth on guns, all of the guns I have owned and shot have had a safety on them (handgun, rifle, and shotgun), and most ofthe reading I have done on this forum dictates that most carry their weapons (Glocks, Kahrs, etc.) without a round in the chamber. This is something I have never done, especially in the military. What are your thoughts on this issue? All input is greatly appreciated. Have a great labor Day Weekend.

Comments

  • HandgunHTR52HandgunHTR52 Member Posts: 2,735
    edited November -1
    The best safety is the person carrying the weapon. Most firearms are lawyer proofed these days anyway. Glocks have a version of a safety in the trigger. You have to pull the trigger for the gun to fire. I have seen many tests where they try to get it to fire some other way and they won't.
    People have been carrying safety-less revolvers for a long time. Just a thought.
  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601
    edited November -1
    My Kel Tec is a DAO pistol, carried with a round chambered.
    My CZ is a SA/DA, carried with a round chambered and decocked (no conventional safety).
    My Kahr P45(ordered, but not yet here) will be carried with a round chambered.

    I feel confident that none of these pistols will pose a serious risk without having a safety. The only people that handle my guns are those that I know are competent and knowledgeable enough.
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • br549br549 Member Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    if the gun doesn't have an external manual safety you couldn't give it to me
  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,969
    edited November -1
    My Kel-Tec and my Kahr P-9&P-45 qre all carried with a round chambered. My trigger finger is the safety.
  • PC800PC800 Member Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by green mile
    Good evening all, I have been debating the issue of having a gun without a safety (like a Glock), or having a gun with a safety(like a taurus). Since I cut my teeth on guns, all of the guns I have owned and shot have had a safety on them (handgun, rifle, and shotgun), and most ofthe reading I have done on this forum dictates that most carry their weapons (Glocks, Kahrs, etc.) without a round in the chamber. This is something I have never done, especially in the military. What are your thoughts on this issue? All input is greatly appreciated. Have a great labor Day Weekend.


    Don't know where you read that most of us carry chamber empty, but that is just the wrong thing to do. If you carry a gun for self defense it should be instantly available to you to fire, not screw around with and try to chamber a round under pressure. Now, as for safeties, I will not own a handgun with a manual safety. (Or as my FTO once called them: the suicide switch.) The safety is just something to forget during the intenseness of the situation and you gun may not go bang when you need it to. My personal favorite guns are Sigs, they do not have a manual safety and are perfectly safe to carry with a round chambered.
  • coledigger4coledigger4 Member Posts: 826 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Green mile, have you ever shot a Glock? I have the Model 22 40 caliber and when I first got it I had quite the time with the trigger/safety. The trigger is 2 piece and I have tried to get it to fire by just pulling the top half but no dice...or bang either. I find the trigger pull to be extremely long so a slight tug or bump would probably not set it off. Other than the length of trigger pull I do like the gun but, except for the weight and concealability (?) or the lack of it because of its size, I prefer shooting my Springfield Armory 1911 45 ACP. With its hammer exposed I feel a bit safer carrying it with a round in the chamber.
  • tucker92tucker92 Member Posts: 94 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can't beat a Kel-Tec 9mm P11 for price, quality, safety, power, compactness, light weight and aesthetics.
  • abcguns2abcguns2 Member Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    O.K. , first of all , most guns have at least some type of 'internal' safety , such as a s&w revolvers ,keltec autos ect.ect. and the Glock has three (3) internal safeties : Trigger,firing pin,drop safety !!!
    I carry a glock (40 cal.) for work and 'off duty' as well as I own and occasionally carry a keltec , All with No Worries about safety !
    and : If you follow the basic gun safety rules You will have No Problems !!!
    All Guns are Always Loaded !
    Keep your finger off the trigger !
    Never Point a gun @ any thing you do not wish to shoot .
    Know your target !
    Thanks !!!
    Be Safe !!!
    d.a.stearns
    Gunsmith / LEO
    Niota , Tn
  • rhmc24rhmc24 Member Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kel-Tek is type without a 'safety' that is fairly safe due to the long rather heavy trigger pull. There are other DAO types that are much the same.

    With Glock there were several local accidents due to no safety and very light trigger pull. One was a man reaching across the seat of his pickup to get the gun and accidentally pulled the trigger. Another was a man shot by a four year old. The latter was a LEO who bought my .40 Glock after I traded it in. You can't imagine the calls I got from lawyers about the Glock even though I had not owned it for months before the shooting.

    True - both of the above were due to some kind of mis-handling of a firearm. But 'safety' has a lot of meanings.
  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,815
    edited November -1
    External safety or not, rule one is to "keep your booger hook off of the bang switch".

    Where IDIOTS get in trouble is trying to holster a Glock with out first taking there finger off the trigger.

    Glocks are perfectly safe, but there also capable of cleansing the gene pool one IDIOT at a time.
  • MrOrangeMrOrange Member Posts: 3,012
    edited November -1
    For me, the whole point of having a sidearm with a manual/external/whatever you wanna call it safety is not to keep me from an AD, since I figure if that happens I deserve it, but to slow down anybody who gets their hands on my sidearm but me.

    A 1911 style down-with-the-thumb safety gets taken off automatically for me, but whatever your weapon style it behooves you to practice with it until it's second nature, same with releases on holsters. From your background it sounds like you already knew that many moons ago.

    As for "the suicide switch", there have been dozens of documented incidents where a police officer was disarmed and the attacker tried to kill him/her with their own sidearm, but couldn't because they couldn't figure out how to take the safety off. Carrying with the safety on saved those officer's lives. And no matter how big and bad you are, it's always possible that somebody can smack you in the head with a 2x4 and take your gun.

    It's incumbent on the carrier to make taking the safety off part of the firing stroke. One of my favorite quotes about personal responsibility (you know how we keep and bear arms types are big on that) was the one from a WWI vet that Cooper used to quote:

    The author saw a German rising up out of a trench at close range, pointed his 1911 and pulled the trigger without effect - he had forgotten to release "the safety catch". He wrote that even as he saw his opponent slam home the bolt and bring his rifle to his shoulder, the thought went through his mind: "If ever a man deserved to die, you do."

    BTW about the only time my primary (Colt LW Cmdr) has an empty chamber is when it's going to, on the bench, or coming home from the range.
  • MN_Jack76MN_Jack76 Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My SigSauer P228 Doesn't have an "External Safety" Just a long double action pull on I'ts first shot. While this is fine for most people, I'm trying to teach my lady friend how to shoot, and although I can't stress safety enough with her, I would prefer to have a external safety when I hand it over.
  • jimbowbyjimbowby Member Posts: 3,496
    edited November -1
    [8D]-Not much to add, except, I've alwayws carried a Colt and now S&W 1911--

    --Cocked and Locked and it's pretty hard to beat the 1911 style of SAFETIES-besides as Handgun/Tailgunner say "touch trigger only when ready to SHOOT !!

    ---JIMBO
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    keeping the booger of the bang switch isnt always the problem. sometimes people install oversize trigger shoes and the shoe can get caught on the leather as its drawn out. viola, AD.
    but revolvers dont have safeties and have been around safely for eons.
    safeties are to protect us from those oops moments. thus, i tend to agree with the thought of always having a safety somewhere, somehow. just train with the safety as part of your drawing/firing practice. it will come second nature and the milisecond it takes wont even be noticed.
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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