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Can you shoot +P in a S&W Model 60?
beantownshootah
Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
Continued from that last thread about +P rounds in older Colt detective specials and in original Smith airweights:
quote:straub
Starting Member 37 Posts
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 7:24:30 PM
Can you shoot +P in a S&W Model 60?
Thank you
Yes you certainly "can". I think the question you are asking is "Is there any risk to the gun or shooter in using +P ammo in a Smith Model 60 revolver"?
All of the more recent model 60s are explicitly rated safe for unlimited use of .38+P ammo. I don't know offhand what year these guns started receiving the +P rating on the gun, but I do know that EVERY current production Smith and Wesson .38 special revolver is rated safe for unlimited use of .38+P ammo.
The current production model 60 guns (and other J-frames) are built on a slightly heavier "magnum" version of the original Smith J-frame compared to the original models 60. Of interest, the current version of this gun is chambered in 357 magnum. If it can handle the 35,000 PSI of a .357 magnum, it should certainly have no trouble with the "wussy" 18,500 PSI of a .38+P.
As to the older non+P rated Smith model 60 guns, you'll get a divergence of opinion here on whether or not +P ammo is appropriate for these older guns. Some will say that you shouldn't fire +P ammo in any non +P rated gun. My opinion is different.
The Smith model 60 is a modern design, hardened stainless steel .38 special, in manufacture since 1965. I think the party line from Smith is that there shouldn't be any problem with using +P ammo in the guns so long as the gun itself is in good working condition, but use of such ammo will accelerate wear on the gun.
Remember, +P ammo was in manufacture and available BEFORE guns started being "rated" for +P. This ammo was specifically designed for use in commonly available guns.
For what its worth, based on everything I've heard, read, and seen on this issue, I think the risks of using +P ammo in the older all-steel (as opposed to alloy-frame) J-frames are overrated.
I have yet to see or hear any story of someone actually wearing out (let alone blowing up) an all-steel Smith J frame from constant use of .38+P ammo.
In fact, I've heard just the opposite, about "cuckoo" handloaders loading ammo to significantly higher pressures than +P ammo and shooting them without problems out of J-frames. Obviously, you don't want to try this, but it does give you a little bit of reassurance.
I've also heard that there is actually no difference whatever between the earlier non +P rated Smith guns and the later ones explicitly labelled +P.
Personally speaking, I've shot +P ammo in older steel J frames (including a model 60) with no issues, and in fact, I will ONLY keep mine loaded with +P ammo.
quote:straub
Starting Member 37 Posts
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 7:24:30 PM
Can you shoot +P in a S&W Model 60?
Thank you
Yes you certainly "can". I think the question you are asking is "Is there any risk to the gun or shooter in using +P ammo in a Smith Model 60 revolver"?
All of the more recent model 60s are explicitly rated safe for unlimited use of .38+P ammo. I don't know offhand what year these guns started receiving the +P rating on the gun, but I do know that EVERY current production Smith and Wesson .38 special revolver is rated safe for unlimited use of .38+P ammo.
The current production model 60 guns (and other J-frames) are built on a slightly heavier "magnum" version of the original Smith J-frame compared to the original models 60. Of interest, the current version of this gun is chambered in 357 magnum. If it can handle the 35,000 PSI of a .357 magnum, it should certainly have no trouble with the "wussy" 18,500 PSI of a .38+P.
As to the older non+P rated Smith model 60 guns, you'll get a divergence of opinion here on whether or not +P ammo is appropriate for these older guns. Some will say that you shouldn't fire +P ammo in any non +P rated gun. My opinion is different.
The Smith model 60 is a modern design, hardened stainless steel .38 special, in manufacture since 1965. I think the party line from Smith is that there shouldn't be any problem with using +P ammo in the guns so long as the gun itself is in good working condition, but use of such ammo will accelerate wear on the gun.
Remember, +P ammo was in manufacture and available BEFORE guns started being "rated" for +P. This ammo was specifically designed for use in commonly available guns.
For what its worth, based on everything I've heard, read, and seen on this issue, I think the risks of using +P ammo in the older all-steel (as opposed to alloy-frame) J-frames are overrated.
I have yet to see or hear any story of someone actually wearing out (let alone blowing up) an all-steel Smith J frame from constant use of .38+P ammo.
In fact, I've heard just the opposite, about "cuckoo" handloaders loading ammo to significantly higher pressures than +P ammo and shooting them without problems out of J-frames. Obviously, you don't want to try this, but it does give you a little bit of reassurance.
I've also heard that there is actually no difference whatever between the earlier non +P rated Smith guns and the later ones explicitly labelled +P.
Personally speaking, I've shot +P ammo in older steel J frames (including a model 60) with no issues, and in fact, I will ONLY keep mine loaded with +P ammo.
Comments
quote:webley
Junior Member
138 Posts
Posted - 12/23/2008 : 10:32:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster
I HAD ALREADY FORMED AN OPINION BEFORE I WROTE THE LETTER. I WANTED SOME EXPERTS GIVE THEIR OPINIONS. MOST DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION NOR DID I UNDERSTAND THE ANSWER. THE CALIBER OF A BULLET,ROUND,SHELL,AMMO,CARTRAGE OR SLUG IS A DESCRIPTION, NOT A NUMBER. MOST PEOPLE WOUILD NOT FEEL SECURE SHOOTING (FIRING) A HEAVERER LOAD IN A LIGHTER ALLOY HANDGUN (PISTOL). HOWEVER, I THINK THE HEAVY "COLT DETECTIVE" COULD HANDLE ANY BULLET,ROUND,SHELL,ETC THAT WOULD FIT INTO ITS CYLINDER.CHAMBER OR BULLET HOLE.
Well, to be clear, technically the caliber of a gun is a number, specifically the diameter of the bullet that it fires. In the case of a .38 special, the nominal caliber is actually .357 of an inch. Again, this is semantics.
As to the second bit about a gun being safe to fire any ammo that will fit its chamber, that is wrong, and in fact quite a dangerous way of thinking.
For example, its probably possible to chamber a .38 Super (auto) round in your Colt .38 special revolver. Since the .38 Super operates at 36,500 PSI and the .38 special at 17,500 PSI, doing this is quite likely to blow up the revolver, potentially causing injury to yourself and anyone nearby.
Similarly, its not supposed to happen, but under CERTAIN circumstances it may be possible to slip a .357 magnum round into the cylinder of a .38 special for the same outcome as above.
Likewise, (if you can find one) a rimmed 9mm Federal round can chamber in a .38SW revolver, with the same outcome as the above two examples. And there are other examples of potentially dangerous mismatches.
The point is, just because you CAN get a cartridge to fit your gun, DOES NOT mean it is necessarily safe to pull the trigger!
Neal