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Question about Mannlicher-Schoenauer scope/mounts

jreinhartjreinhart Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
edited December 2008 in Ask the Experts
Howdy,

I recently inherited my grandfather's lovely 1952 M-S 30.06 carbine. Some time ago, the scope was stolen and I am evaluating whether it might be cost-effectively replaced before I pass this on to my son.

I have asked a couple of local gunsmiths both of whom looked at the mounts, rolled their eyes and pointed me towards this site. I've heard the mounts described as 'claw mount' and 'dovetail'. Pictures of the mount include:
P1000199.jpg
P1000200.jpg

The full set of markings include:
On the top of the receiver is stamped:
Made in Austria
Original
Mannlicher
Schoenauer
Model 1952
Kal. 30-06

Serial No. 11055

On the left side of the receiver below the breach: Steyr-Daimler-Pugh A.G., Steyr (and the Steyr logo)

On the magazine floor plate:
Waffen Dschulnigg
Salzburg, Austria

So, what is the proper name for this type of mount? Is there hope of finding a replacement scope?

I would appreciate any comments or advice.

Thanks & regards,
Jim
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Comments

  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jim, At one time I collected the M-S rifles and carbines. I had one with similar claw mount bases for which I tried to find a ring assembly that would fit. It was an effort in vain. Here is what I perceive your choices to be.

    1) Hire a master gunsmith to make a set of 1 inch claw mount rings to fit your bases. Once you have a ring assembly you can install whatever 1" tube scope you want to use. I would estimate the cost to go this route would cost a minimum of $500.

    2) Have a Griffin and Howe side mount assembly installed. The left side of the receiver has a removable steel plate that can be removed to install the G & H. Cost of a new G & H side mount will probably exceed $500 and that does not include labor for installing.

    3) Leave the rifle as is and use the irons sights.

    Option 2 will further degrade the value of the rifle.

    Since most all the claw mount ring and base assemblies were hand fitted I doubt that you will ever find any that will fit the bases on your carbine. This opinion is based on several years of looking at gunshows for rings that would fit the bases on my rifle.
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  • RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FWIW, I always wanted a "52" and was thrilled when I found a .270 in excellent condition except for the fact that it was a rifle and not the full length stocked carbine and it had been drilled and tapped for Redfield bases. The bases worked fine, but I sold the rifle when I found out how efficiently it channeled gases from a ruptured primer straight back to my face. Thank god for shooting glasses!
    Bottom line, it was one of the most beautifully made rifles I'd ever owned, but not worth it to me to risk another ruptured primer or case.
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jreinhart,

    Welcome to the Gunbroker Forums!

    Restoring a rifle such as yours is always cost effective especially if you want to pass it on to your son. I'm sorry that your scope and mounts were stolen but to leave the rifle as is, is reprehensible. You should NOT do any additional modifications to the rifle other than having the mounts fitted properly.

    Yes, they are referred to as Claw Mounts. Each set is fitted individually to the bases on the rifle. In essence, they aren't mass produced like American rings. I have to chuckle when a gunsmith 'rolls his eyes' at the mention of fitting claw mounts. It's not that difficult but it takes some time since the fitting is by hand with files.

    The first link is for the folks who carry and install claw mounts:

    New England Custom Guns

    www.newenglandcustomgun.com/clawmounts.html


    This is a gunsmith that specializes in claw mounts:

    Joseph Lee LeBas III

    LeArmes Inc.

    L & L Enterprises

    5775 Old US Hwy 395 N.

    Carson City, NV 89704

    (775) 841-3069

    http://www.learmes.com/index.html

    E-Mail ~~ learmes@msn.com

    Good luck with your project and if you run into problem, let us know.

    Best.
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  • dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,178 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In addition to the above information and having been in a similar situation, I would add be patient, learn about the rifle and the mounts and that will guide you to eventually finding the proper original style mounts. Doing it right is in the long run very much worth it, not just from an economic point but with respect to self satisfaction.

    Edit: OK, see below ......
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    dfletcher,

    "...learn about the rifle and the original mounts and that will guide you to eventually finding the proper original mounts."

    The 'proper original mounts' are with the scope that got stolen. There are no other proper original mounts unless he has some made to fit the bases.

    Best.
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  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886 ✭
    edited November -1
    Not to split hairs, but unless the scope/mount was originally serialized to the firearm, wouldn't the OP be "good to go" with a replacement [M/S catalog listing-period correct] scope?

    That the fitting of a claw mount setup as being necessary is a given.

    If the mount system was serialized to the firearm then, and only then, would "originality" be lost by retro-fitting a replacement scope/mount setup.

    That's my take on it. Best, Joe
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    givette,

    This appears to be going around in a circle but I'll rephrase what I wrote.

    It's not that the rings and bases are serialized to the rifle as they aren't. My point is that the current owner will NOT find the original rings unless he finds the thief that stole them, which is highly unlikely.

    New blank rings designed for claw mounts are available from a couple of sources, one being EAW. They can also be made from scratch but I can assure you that it's easier and cheaper to buy the blanks and then fit those to the bases. The fitting is a little tedious but it certainly isn't hard.

    Finding a scope is no different so long as you take the clearance of the scope into account. This is an older example on an M98:

    mauserm98stutzen2506dqh4.jpg

    This is a newer scope design but on an M98 with the side claw mount similar to the M-S:

    scopemountsideclawmountrp2.jpg

    Best.
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  • PA ShootistPA Shootist Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a Mannlicher Schoenauer Model 1910 that was brought home by a vet after WWII. It had claw mount bases, and no claw mounts or scope came with it. I called New England Custom Guns, and they said they could make and custom fit a set of claw mounts to my bases, but the price was a little high for my budget at the moment. I then later read an article about making claw mounts from an old Tommy Bish gunsmithing book, and decided I would try the same. It took a lot of handwork with files, and some silver brazing work, but I managed to persevere and I use them today with a Weaver 1x3 variable scope. They fit snugly and work well. But I made each little part at least twice before the mounts were workable.
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  • jreinhartjreinhart Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gentleman,
    I am deeply appreciative of the expertise and insight that you've shared. You've all been gracious. Based on the sentimental value alone, I will contact the two smiths recommended here and pursue having a new set of rings made.

    Happy New Year to all,
    Jim
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jreinhart,

    Excellent!

    Please let us know how this project works out for you and your son.

    Best.
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