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Mystery rifle
SteveM74
Member Posts: 98 ✭✭
I have a rifle with the following markings:
SPANDAU 1917 1920 / REM.98
Can you tell anything about it? History, were made, caliber & value?
SPANDAU 1917 1920 / REM.98
Can you tell anything about it? History, were made, caliber & value?
Comments
The markings are as follows:
- on top of the reciever is a s above a crown above Spandau 1893
- on the right side of the reciever is GEW 88
- on the bottom at the front of the magazine is 1668(presumeably the serial #)
- at the base of the bolt is 1425 d
Any information that someone could give me on this is greatly appreciated as it is a mystery to me.
Thanks
Steve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_88
http://www.gew88.com/
Do NOT shoot modern 8mm mauser ammo it it...this rifle and your physical well being will NOT like it.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114032230
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114119777
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114382979
Welcome to the GB forums!
dcloco is rightly pointing out that the GEW 88 used the 7.92 x 57 ammunition which was loaded with bullets 0.318" in diameter. The newer version of the 7.92 x 57 ammunition uses bullets that are 0.323" in diameter. If you fired the newer, larger diameter ammunition in the older, smaller diameter barrels, the pressure could exceed what the rifle was designed to handle.
Read the article that rufe-snow listed as a URL. It contains a good discussion of this problem.
"So this is more of a lookin at piece then?"
No, not necessarily. There are still 0.318" bullets available for reloading so you could safely load for and shoot this rifle after having a gunsmith check it over carefully to be sure that it's in proper shape.
Best.
..... the GEW 88 used the 7.92 x 57 ammunition which was loaded with bullets 0.318" in diameter. The newer version of the 7.92 x 57 ammunition uses bullets that are 0.323" in diameter. ....
Best.
Slight correction in nominclature (as taught to me by Iconoclast, where ever he is), The GEW 88 used 7.9 x 57 ammo (.318 bullets), the later 7.92 x 57 uses/denotes the .323 slugs
"Slight correction in nominclature (as taught to me by Iconoclast, where ever he is), The GEW 88 used 7.9 x 57 ammo (.318 bullets), the later 7.92 x 57 uses/denotes the .323 slugs"
In most every case, I would of course defer to Iconoclast simply due to his well know expertise in the area of cartridges. I have had the pleasure of learning a substantial amount from him and through his larger resources.
In this particular situation though, after just having completed a short research article on the 8 x 57 cartridge, I have accumulated a substantial number of disparate references to this cartridge and how it was described and labeled. There doesn't seem to be a definite majority consensus or even agreement amongst the experts as to exactly which label was 'official' if there was one. However, I do agree that if there was any consistency to this, I'd be the first to vote for it because of the simplification if would represent for us.
International Ammunition Association:
"Amongst collectors, the M88 is usually referred to as the Model 1888 Commission Rifle or the German Infantry Model 1888 or the Gewehr 88.
The M88 cartridge is more correctly called the 7.92 x 57mm J." - International Ammunition Association
"There are many designations for the Model 1888 cartridge, all are correct depending on usage and who used the designations. The Germans used all three of the numerical portions of the designations at one time, 7.9, 7.92 and 8mm. The "7.9 x 57" seemed to be favored for German military use, while many export-contract rounds show a 7.92 designation, and much commercial German ammunition shows the 8 x 57 designation.
As far as headstamping went, the "J" and "JS" (or "I" and "IS") designations were used more commercially than on military ammo." - International Ammunition Association
- "The caliber designation is stamped on the rear sight, "7.9 mm". The barrel is bored for a standard German "7.92mm" Mauser cartridge." Factory note.
I have somewhere around here, several barrels from the original M88 rifles that have the ring in front of the tenon stamped both ways; 7.9(mm) and 7.92(mm).
This should in no way be misconstrued as being contentious, rather a short presentation of differing information.
Best.
Is this a gun that can be rebarreled to a modern cartridge? Main reason being is that someone attempted to shorten the barrel and mangled it pretty bad in the process.
That must be a mess, with the '88 tubular heat shield.
Technically, it could be rebarreled to a "modern" cartridge of moderate pressure. The 7x57 Mauser is a good round at little higher pressure with no bullet diameter monkey business. For that matter, you could put a .323" 8mm barrel on it; AMERICAN 8mm ammo is very lightly loaded, below even the 1888 round.
But the cost of a new barrel and professional installation would likely be more than the value of the rifle. It might be a suitable advanced amateur gunsmithing project. Do you have a lathe and the machinist and gunsmith skills to use it?
A lot of information is being passed out without any actual hands on experience.
Look on the receiver above the crown and look for a 3mm "S". If you find one, your rifle is properly termed an Gew 88/05 and has been modified by the German army to shoot the .323 diameter bullet. A good reference that just came out and most people don't have yet is:
A COLLECTOR'S GUIDE TO THE GERMAN GEW. 88 "COMMISSION" RIFLE--GERMANY'S FIRST MODERN MILITARY RIFLE, THE INFANTERIEGEWEHR 88. by Scarlata, Paul S.
Any commercially made 8mm Mauser ammo is fine in your weapon (pending a gunsmiths safety and fitness inspection), so Remington, PMC, Federal, etc are all okay. I would not shoot surplus ammo as those cartridges are possibly a little hot and the basic 88 doesn't have the strength of the later Model 98.
There has been plenty of good information handed out in answer to SteveM74's questions, you just have to take the time to read it.
Best.