Difference in A5 or M-11?

00scoots · June 2003

My next "smithing" project for this coming winter will be to take a perfectly fine shotgun and make it into a bullpup. This past winter had me working on different trigger linkages.

I've been looking at a Browning A5 and Remington Model 11, are there any differences between the two? Any "quirks" I should look for in either one of these?

You can never have too many guns!!!

MIKE WISKEY · June 2003

thes are two very similar shotguns (same patent, different makers) unfortunetly most parts don't interchang. when doing any customising keep in mind the long recoil system, the barrel and bolt recoil together some 3" then the barrel springs back forward while the bolt stays locked back untill the barrel reaches it's full forward possition, then the bolt unlocks and springs forward chambering the next round.

00scoots · June 2003

Mike Wiskey,

I mentioned my upcoming project to a WW II vet. He mentioned he had issued to him a Savage 720 for awhile and it was also made on this same patent. He also mentioned Savage 745 and 750 may have also been made on this patent. I have not heard of this and can find no info on these Savage shotguns, maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Do you have any info on these shotguns?

You can never have too many guns!!!

familyguy · June 2003

00 - could you let me know how the project goes? I had a Mossberg 500 Bullpup for a while, but the pump action didn't lend well to quick firing. Would be very interested in a semi-auto, I like tinkering on my own stuff, etc.

For a while I considered trying the 9200 in the 500 clamshell, but couldn't find a beater I was willing to work on. Everyone had 'like new' for $400 (over priced IMHO).

Think I still have the exploded parts view for the 500 if you're interested (might help with designing your own system).

Got a new gun for my ex-wife.....pretty good trade, huh?

MIKE WISKEY · June 2003

YES THE SAVAGES WERE BUILT ON THE SAME PATENT ALSO. I LOST MOST OF MY REFERENCE BOOKS IN A FIRE SOME YEARS AGO BUT HAVE WORKED ON MOST OF THESE. THEY ALL WORK THE SAME BUT PARTS DON'T INTERCHANGE, EVEN THE BROWNING A-5'S MADE DURING WW2 WERE MADE BY SAVAGE (SOME SAY REMINGTON, BUT PARTS LOOK MORE LIKE SAVAGE). GUN PARTS HAS PARTS AND DRAWINGS FOR ALL OF THESE.

00scoots · June 2003

For those that may know,

If I would want to shoot 3" shells out of this long recoil shotgun would I be limited to the Browning A5 Magnum as a choice. Would there be more involved than chambering the barrel to accept 3" shells for the Remington M-11, the Savages or a non-magnum Browning A5?

You can never have too many guns!!!

v35 · June 2003

In Korea, the Army had standard Savage 720s and Remington Model 11s, Remington 31s and Winchester Model 12s. They were Special Service guns available for recreation and hunting. I also had one Model 12 with a 20" bbl and a Cutts Compensator. As I recall, the Savage 720 and Remington had interchangeable parts. To my knowledge the guns were not issued except for those purposes because they had long moveable barrels and couldn't mount a bayonet. Riot guns with handguards and bayonet fittings were issued for guard duty in some areas but I doubt they ever saw combat as we were sticklers to the Geneva Convention rules.

timbroman · June 2003

Scoots, I think someone with more smarts than me is going to wonder how that 2-3/4 receiver will load the 3" shells and eject the 3" hulls. Sorta like the problems faced when reworking a 2-9/16" shotgun to handle 2-3/4" shells. I had asked opinion on this some time ago when I was wondering what kind of investment it would take to convert an old Browning from 2-9/16 to 2-3/4. That said, I suppose with some effort most anything can be done, some things just take a little more work. Good luck with the project.

timbroman@aol.com

Python · June 2003

Scoots;
Browning A-5's, Remington M-11's and Savage
720,730,740,745&750 DO NOT lend themselves to Bullpupping.
These are variants of the same gun, there are differences in all
that prohibits parts interchanging. They all are long recoil,locked breech actions. The bolt main spring extends far into the stock, and is VERY diffacult to shorten the spring tube and match a shorter spring and maintain reliability. There are newer, shorter recoil actions that would lend themselves better to this particular configuration. Besides the mechanical problems, these guns are becoming more and more valuable as collectors items. The A-5 in most incarnations is an Icon in the gunning world, and to bull pup one would border on herasy.If your's is one of the versions made in St. Louis, Mo, it is particulsr interest. Check into some of the other models out there, Winchester,Browning, Remington, everybody and there dog make a shorter, reliable auto that would be far easier,and not arrouse out cry, to Bullpup.

Kill all the lawyers and the world will be much better for it.

00scoots · June 2003

Python - Many thanks for the "heads-up" on the action spring length. I checked this out and I would agree that to shorten all of the components extending into the stock could end up being extremely frustrating.

My main consideration for these models was because of the reliability of this shotgun and how the trigger resets during the recoil of the bolt and barrel.

I'm not sure which older short recoil action shotguns to consider for bullpupping. I'm not going to cut my "Bullpupping teeth" on a Benelli, Browning Gold or Winchester Super X2.

In any case, this may all end up being a Remington 1100 bullpup and I would be happy with that.

You can never have too many guns!!!

bobski · July 2003

if i were going to do a bullpup experiment, it would be on the gas operated super x 2 before a long recoil gun. btw...old 1100's can be had for a song and dance these days. use one of them! if dependability is what youre after, you have to take into consideration all the different conditions youd be firing it..two handed, one handed, arm tucked, arm extended, etc...i would not want to bet my life on a recoil operated gun, especially if it was just laying on a berm w/o being shouldered. what will it recoil against? give it some thought. its for this reason most military guns are pumps. regards, bob

former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.

JudgeColt · July 2003

The Remington M1100 has a recoil spring in the stock so it will not work either.

Why not just buy a High Standard Model 10A or 10B? You can buy a worn 10B with missing flashlight for about what you would have in the project. There are some up on the auction site right now. I also wonder about the dynamics of using a long-recoil action with everything changed. Would it be reliable?

Just get a 10B and you will have a shotgun designed for the configuration you seek.

Difference in A5 or M-11?

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