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Point of Impact

FEENIXFEENIX Member Posts: 10,559 ✭✭✭
edited October 2007 in Ask the Experts
Is there a change of bullet point of impact with a muzzle brake and without. A friend sights his rifle with the muzzle brake on and takes it off when hunting. He missed quite a few shots in the last couple of seasons and had to do follow up shots and am wondering if the change has something to do with it. He shoots a .300WM with either 165g or 180g.

If there is, how much and at what range(s) should he start compensating? Sounds to me that it'll be a lot easier to just leave it on and just use proper safety protection - I do (too lazy to take them on and off)[:p].

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Comments

  • FEENIXFEENIX Member Posts: 10,559 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hope you people can help me. I have a Jager Italy Model 1873 Dakota 45 colt. I'm shooting "medium power" 250gr lead round nose reloads that came with pistol. The pistol is shooting 5" low and 4" left of the 15 yard target. Is this normal? Is there any way I can change the point of impact?
  • HandgunHTR52HandgunHTR52 Member Posts: 2,735
    edited November -1
    The other option is for him to shoot at a paper target without the break and see if there is a POI change.
    The 300 isn't that big of a beast. If he is really recoil shy, have him get a PAST pad for shooting without the break.
    The other thing that I will add is that if he is recoil shy, when shooting without the break, he may be anticipating the recoil and flinching. That is why the "follow-up" shots are hitting, because at that point he is concentrating on the animal that is running away, not on the recoil that he is going to feel.
    JMTC.
  • jtmarine0831jtmarine0831 Member Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It will definately change point of impact! It is all about harmonics. The extra weight on the end of the barrel gives it a specific harmonic as the bullet travels down the barrel. You change the weight, you change the harmonics. Think of it like throwing a rock in the pond. You thrown in a rock and it make ripples, now throw in a bigger rock and what do you have, bigger ripples. I know that is a poor way to describe it, but it was all I could think of. Some people believe that an adjustable compensator is the way to go, I have never used one so I am not knowledgable about how well they work. They work on the principle of moving the forward or backward at the end of the barrel changing the harmonics. Some people like 'em, some don't, but I have seen them take a Mini-14 that shot a 4in group at 100yds and with alittle time and tuning shoot 3/8in groups. Hope I helped a little!
  • jtmarine0831jtmarine0831 Member Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:The other thing that I will add is that if he is recoil shy, when shooting without the break, he may be anticipating the recoil and flinching.

    This is also true, sorry I wasn't paying attemtion to Handgun's comment. Trick him! Or have him trick himself! Have him get all ready to shoot and either use a dummy round or a snap cap or pull the bullet, dump the powder and use the primer(without the bullet ofcourse) to perform some dry fires. This can show him and you how bad he is flinching. Practice dry firing until you can control yourself and when you are actually shooting, relax! It is a lot less painful when you relax and yes a PAST shoulder pad is a very good idea if you plan on having a long session!
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FEENIX,

    I definitely think it will change impact. How much is needed to be seen.

    +1 on the dummy round/dry-fire experience. Something further on that though is before he fires balance a penny on the barrel. If he flinches it will knock the penny off. That, of course, if there isn't a round in the chamber that will go off. For just dry firing, that is a good test.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FEENIX,

    Adding or subtracting weight from the muzzle will affect POI. As mentioned, it's a factor of harmonics. Volumes are written on the subject and if you and your friend are interested here is a link to a good article:

    http://www.shootingsoftware.com/barrel.htm

    This has some good graphics for illustration:

    http://www.varmintal.com/amode.htm

    And for the Mini-14 fanatics:

    http://www.gunsandhunting.com/rugermini14.html

    Best.
  • FEENIXFEENIX Member Posts: 10,559 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I do not think he's recoil sensitive because he also shoots a .340 Weatherby. Come to think of it, he also took 3 shots to down his elk last year. Thank you very for all your input. I will definitely share them. [^]
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    3 shots on a large animal? second shot on running game better than 1st shot?? sounds like adrenaline overcomes his fear of recoil. I have to agree,..it sounds as though he has a flinch. It is a hard thing to work out of,..but a flinch will detroy accuracy.

    I am not particularly recoil sensitive,..but I know there are rifles I don't like to shoot on the bench. In a light rig, with a 300WM chambering, off the bench, that recoil is stout[}:)] Off handed, during a hunt, you won't notice the recoil at all (adrenaline), but from the bench, it is less than enjoyable to work a load ladder or test factory ammo for best groups.

    I personaly like muzzle breaks, but you have to remember to use ear protection when shooting.[8]
  • FEENIXFEENIX Member Posts: 10,559 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • blacarrowblacarrow Member Posts: 424 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hard for me to read the comments and NOT respond.

    Prior to retirement, I was the Chief Firearms test Engineer for many years at Browning Arms.

    I did virtually all the developmental accuracy testing on the BOSS system, well over 30,000 rounds, during testing I shot with and without the brake attached with the same rifle.

    The change in the P.O.I would not be enough to miss a well aimed shot, but for psychological reassurance, I'd suggest he go to a range and try both with and without the brake.

    Hope this helps.
  • jtmarine0831jtmarine0831 Member Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:with or without the brake attached with the same rifle.


    Every rifle is different!
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