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Nononsense, 260rem vs. 6.5 47 Lapua
gunnut505
Member Posts: 10,290 ✭
Been looking for a better F-Class caliber, reading about barrel life, cost to reload, etc., and was curious why the "real" tactical shooters go with the 6.5 Lapua instead of the almost ballistically identical 260rem?
Gun will be an AI AW sans suppressor, mounting a Nightforce 24X50.
I'm leaning towards the 260, due to barrel life issues in the Lapua.
Edit #1
Well, that sure contradicts 90% of what I've read on "other" forums!
And with quality brass going for over $2 apiece, I might have to order in commercial quantities in the future!
I guess my stable of 6.5s was bound to grow, eventually.
Thanks all, I appreciate the unanimous support of the Creedmore, and now I have a lot of research to do!
Edit #2
I've been using a squared/trued Sako TRGs with a 28" Krieger tube in 300 Winchester Magnum under a 24 power Weaver scope for about 3 years now, and the original barrel went from .5 moa to well over 2.5 moa in the course of a day's match.
Using Norma brass, I only got 6-8 reloads with the recipe I was using.
It was fast, accurate, and the 210VLDs did an amazing job on that paint can lid.
As I gain more experience (& years), I came to the realization that one cannot buy enough Icy/Hot to make up for youthful exuberance in caliber choice.
In researching the Creedmore, it seems to generate less case spoilage, and uses a powder that I have 15 pounds from the same lot of. I adapted a front plate from a Schuetzen stock's hand stop with a small elevator screw when I got the AI, never thought about the rear.
I got the long range bug right after a 45-90 came to me from an estate, the relative was a fan of Trooper Willy Dixon, and had MANY hyphenated caliber rifles.
1,000 yards is Zen in its' finest form.
Gun will be an AI AW sans suppressor, mounting a Nightforce 24X50.
I'm leaning towards the 260, due to barrel life issues in the Lapua.
Edit #1
Well, that sure contradicts 90% of what I've read on "other" forums!
And with quality brass going for over $2 apiece, I might have to order in commercial quantities in the future!
I guess my stable of 6.5s was bound to grow, eventually.
Thanks all, I appreciate the unanimous support of the Creedmore, and now I have a lot of research to do!
Edit #2
I've been using a squared/trued Sako TRGs with a 28" Krieger tube in 300 Winchester Magnum under a 24 power Weaver scope for about 3 years now, and the original barrel went from .5 moa to well over 2.5 moa in the course of a day's match.
Using Norma brass, I only got 6-8 reloads with the recipe I was using.
It was fast, accurate, and the 210VLDs did an amazing job on that paint can lid.
As I gain more experience (& years), I came to the realization that one cannot buy enough Icy/Hot to make up for youthful exuberance in caliber choice.
In researching the Creedmore, it seems to generate less case spoilage, and uses a powder that I have 15 pounds from the same lot of. I adapted a front plate from a Schuetzen stock's hand stop with a small elevator screw when I got the AI, never thought about the rear.
I got the long range bug right after a 45-90 came to me from an estate, the relative was a fan of Trooper Willy Dixon, and had MANY hyphenated caliber rifles.
1,000 yards is Zen in its' finest form.
Comments
If we look at this closely, you will be able to discern the differences instantly.
The 6.5x47 Lapua has a capacity of 48 grains of H2O. It uses a 30 degree shoulder.
The .260 Rem. has a capacity of 54 grains of H2O. It uses a 20 degree shoulder. Bullet seating for the longer VLDs takes up necessary powder space.
More powder, Hotter burning and a shoulder that allows plasma impingement on the throat, pretty much hurts the .260 Rem.
Less powder, more efficient with a 30 degree shoulder and comparable velocities, usually pushes the 6.5x47 to the front. The shorter case allows bullets to be seated out further, giving more room for powder.
Brass is a toss up since Lapua makes both flavors.
Barrel life will be longer for the 6.5x47 as opposed to the .260 Rem. Accuracy has proven to be superb with the 6.5x47. I've been running a 30" barrel for the 6.5x47 but you have to assess the weight of all of your components to make the weight restriction. Most of my shooting is with the 130 class bullets. Just be sure to pick up your brass...
On the other hand, the 6mm Creedmoor is a surprising upstart in F-Class and more to the point PRS competitions.
If you want to use the AI AW for F-Class, I would try to fabricate a front plate for the front rest and maybe a rear Delrin rod for the bottom of the buttstock. Be sure to use a level.
A couple of the matches I shoot are very windy so I haul out the heavy rifle, 6.5 GAP 4-S with 140 grain Hybrids. Yes, I get decent barrel life even though it will be shorter than the x47 but I know the barrel maker...
Best.
Been looking for a better F-Class caliber, reading about barrel life, cost to reload, etc., and was curious why the "real" tactical shooters go with the 6.5 Lapua instead of the almost ballistically identical 260rem?
Gun will be an AI AW sans suppressor, mounting a Nightforce 24X50.
I'm leaning towards the 260, due to barrel life issues in the Lapua.
There are several chamberings in that class of performance...the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, the 260 Remington, the 6.5x47 Lapua, and the 6.5 Creedmoor. The 6.5 Creedmoor happens to be the most efficient, getting the job done, and extending barrel life.
Most likely the 6.5x47 has real high quality brass from Lapua, is most likely part of the reason it is somewhat flocked to. When I go after high end accuracy, and case consistency, and longevity, I always head for Norma, or Lapua brass. Hornady has come a very long way, and leads the cutting edge in bullet, and brass technology these days. I have yet to totally trust them, providing they make the cartridge case I am after.
Take a look at that 6.5 Creedmoor, and you will not be disappointed.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2016/12/20/the-65-creedmoor-what-s-the-big-deal/
I forgot to mention that Lapua will be releasing 6.5 Creedmoor brass in the next few weeks.
http://www.lapua.com/en/headlines/335/6.5-Creedmoor-is-here!
It will have the small primer pocket and the small flash hole. Midway has a reserved spot for this brass showing $125.00/100 marked 'Coming Soon'.
I've read a tremendous amount of press and internet discussions regarding most of the 6.5mm cartridges starting with a comparison article from several years ago. The basic drift is that every one of these cartridges will perform for either F-Class or the PRS-type series of competitions. I've also developed loads for and shot quite a number of these cartridges in practice and competition.
The upside is that any one of these cartridges, as well as several others not mentioned, will perform up to the expectations of the shooter when we do our jobs of driving the rifle correctly. The average range conditions will allow any of these cartridges to win given the above statement. It's only when the conditions get above average that the need for increased velocity is called for. And even then a well practiced wind reader can still beat the entire field.
There have many days when I'll opt for the 6mmBRX or 6mm Dasher instead of the bigger cartridges and I'm happy doing it. I take less of a beating over the course of fire and my scores are still respectable.
Many of these decisions need to be based on a balance, a balance between cartridge perfomance, range conditions, atmospheric conditions and the driver, of course. The cartridge you are comfortable shooting and the confidence you have in your own ability to shoot it will make all the difference in the way you compete.
Remember though, the last 3 consecutive Canadian Nationals have been won by Shiraz Balolia shooting a custom .300 WSM for the entire course of fire. I've also watched him shoot a 7mm-300 WSM in competition.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/shiraz-balolia/
He shoots these larger cartridges for the shear horsepower and the heavier, longer, higher BC bullets which are now available. They are paying more attention to what is referred to as the 'waterline' of certain bullets. In essence, it's minimizing the vertical dispersion which is most important as long as you have a great wind coach calling the wind corrections.
Please let us know what you finally decide and take a couple of photographs!
Best.
1. run the new brass through a full resizer die to get rid of any case wall and neck dents/imperfections
2. sort the brass according to length and trim to the smallest length - hopefully not shorter than the recommended case length
3. deburr case mouth
4. ream the primer pocket to the same depth
5. deburr the flash hole
I've done the same preparations with the Lapua brass and don't notice any accuracy differences between the Lapua and the others' brass.
Takes time but I usually do it for the twenty cases I'll use for hunting; and then later reload again and again by neck sizing only and cleaning the primer pocket and trimming the case length when required.
The discussion of brass and quality is not necessarily limited to the use of any brass in terms of accuracy. These discussions often use the term 'quality' with regard to the number of repeated firings a case will sustain. Most of the competition folks push the limits of pressure when loading for competitions. It is a fact that Remington, Winchester and especially Federal are noticeably less tough than either Norma or Lapua, therefore they do not hold up to the number of firings that we generally look for in 'quality' brass. I have as many as 15-20 reloads on my Lapua brass and at least 10 on the Norma. Therefore this brass is a higher quality than the others because of the case life.
Best.