Some newbie questions on AKs

Dar

Hi everyone. I am somewhat a newbie concerning guns in general so expect some silly questions . Anyway, I am considering buying an AK. My friend tells me to get an AR-15 but the pricetag on the AR wasn't too appealing. From what I see around the net the AK is quite easier to optain price-wise. Plus I am more attracted to the look of the AK. Now there's a couple choices for me. Reading around this forum I found the Sar 1 and Sar 3 and more AKs on Tennessee guns website(some sweet AKs). Now the Sar's are cheaper but at the cost of what? Are the variants on Tennessee guns website more expensive because it uses more US parts? BTW, I am attracted to the SLR-100H (Legend). I have another question concerning the ammunation for the AK. It seems to me, after browsing around the net, that the ammo for the 7.62X39 is way cheaper then the ammo for the .223 I asked a friend of mine and he has no clues to why. Am I missing something?Also would the AK be easier to upkeep then say an AR 15? If someone knows a great website on AK info please let me know.Thanks aheadDar

oneshy

I'll tell you what little I know. I'm not familiar with the terms Sar1 etc. What makes one more exp. than another is a milled receiver[one piece] vs stamped[rivetted pieces]. Generally the Romanian, Egyptian Maadi, and European models are of better quality than the Chinese which are cheaply made, but comparably priced because they can no longer be imported. The European models are considered relics and are readily available for around $325. I would recommend one of these. The ammunition is cheaper. I don't really know why, except that the Chinese and Russian companies are in heavy competition and 20 million AK's need feeding. The AK is a much simpler weapon to operate and fixing one could be as simple as dropping in a part where as you might have to send the AR to a gunsmith. Do not expect tack-driving accuracy from an AK. The AR is much more accurate. If you just want something to take to the range and burn a few hundred rounds, the AK is a perfect choice. When you do select your rifle pay attention to milled vs stamped rec. Milled being the more desirable. The chinese are very cheaply made.[This message has been edited by oneshy (edited 09-08-2001).]

boeboe

There are, as you can tell, several variations of the AK, and several factors in pricing.Factors to consider include:Milled receiver or stamped receiver. Milled is worth more, due to durability. Stamped receiver is lighter if weight is a consideration.Pre-'89 ban, pre-'94 ban, post-ban foreign made (takes only single stack, low cap mags) or post-ban US assembled (takes hi-cap mags). Naturally, those that can legally accept bayonets, flash hiders, and folding stocks (pre-'89) are worth more.LOTS of variables and varieties.The original "Legend" series was from Poly-Tech. Although Chinese, they are considered to be amoung the best (but you can't really tell it by looking at them, the machine work is still rough by US Standards). I've seen the recent Bulgarian models called "Legend" also. Probably trying to capitalize on the earlier name. Only reason I want to make that distinction is because I have one of the original Poly Tech "National Match" Legends with the heavy barrel and want to be snobby However, there should be nothing wrong with the recent "Bulgarian" SLR. I use quote marks because much of it is US made. It has the milled receiver. Only negative thing I've heard about such guns, which are built using foreign parts kits and enough US made parts to make them legal, is that occasionally they have to be tuned up some to get the parts all working together as they should. No big problems. Actually, I'd like to pick up one of the US assembled AKs just to shoot, and save wear and tear on my pre-ban AKs. But I don't need another milled receiver AK so I'd save some money with the stamped receiver. That, however, is just me.7.62X39 ammo is less expensive because so much surplus ammo is available from overseas.If you really want accuracy, save your money and get an AR. A good post-ban AR can be had for not too much more money that a milled post-ban AK (if you don't consider approx $200.00 too much money).

Kadaver

I have a Sar-1....Heres the breakdown.... Your best buy right now is probably a Romanain AK. There are a lot of them floating around right now and you can expect to pay 300-350 for a new one. The Chinesse ones are not cheaply made, The chinesse are the Norinco / Polytechs which (if you want a serious AK) people with lots of money buy. As far as the milled vs. non-milled....sure some people prefer milled but it really doesnt matter. I would stay away from the Egyptian aks. Get a bulgarian if you can find one, but otherwise a romanian.The reason the Romanians are so cheap if for a few reasons. first there are a lot around, second they aren't as "Sweet" as the ones you saw in the pictures i assume. When i got mine the varnish job on the stock sucked. But i redid it to my liking. Otherwise i have no complaints about my ak. I can hit coffee cans at 100yards with open sights and no adjustment.As far as the ammo goes. Currently tons of Russian made ammo is pouring into america which makes it much cheaper. If i bought of the internet i can get 1000 rounds for 90 bucks....at the sporting goods store i can get 200 round for 90 bucks. However, I am sure that someday there will be a law put into place restricting the flow of this cheaper ammo. The ammo isnt the highest grade but it works great if your into plinking or firing off 30 rounds in 3 seconds like me. =-)For you i would suggest getting a Romanian SAR-1 which is the 7.62x39mm I bought one from "Haveguns" for 340 bucks and it came with (6) 30rd. mags and it was damn nice (besides the stock)...I think you will be very pleased. Plus, your ak (with care of course) will still fire under any condition where the ar-15 (the delicate princess of guns) won't. IMHOI absolutely love mine.~kaddy

ED P

The SAR-1 is a better choice for reliability/price. I've heard some people have feeding problems on the last round for magazines for the SAR-3 (.223 cal version), others say they work great. The AK was designed for 7.62x39, so I'd stick to the SAR-1, and the 7.62 Wolf ammo is cheap and reliable.My problem with AR-15's.1. To this day I don't understand how they could design the AR gas system the way they did, it uses a gas tube, rather than a gas piston, pumping dirty exhaust gases right back into the receiver area. This caused many problems when the gun was first fielded, and though cleaner burning ammo has lessened this problem significantly, I still pray for the day the US Military switches to a better weapon. I have friends who were in the Gulf war who said their M-16's had to be kept super clean to stay functional, even with all the modernizations made.2. My biggest problem with the AR-15 is that after the large capacity magazine ban a few years back, the quality of AR magazines went down hill fast. Even if you have a clean AR-15, a poor 30 round magazine can make a good gun not feed properly, and finding good quality magazine vs. junk in most used mag bins at stores needs an educated buyer who can recognize contract company names stamped on the magazines, and know which were considered good, and which were junk. AK magazines, due to a loop hole in the large capacity magazine laws, were still legal to ship into the US many years later. You can still find brand new, perfectly functioning AK mags for $15. And the overall design of the AK mag is superior, reinforced with a thick ring of hard metal at the mouth of the mag so you could almost bang a nail into a wall with it, whereas US magazines are cheap stamped boxes in many cases.

Dar

Appreciate the help.I suppose I'll go with the Romanian. Anyway I saw this at http://www.gunsnammo.com/ AK 75 ROUND DRUMS CHINESE MFR. 109 dollars and AK-47 40 ROUND MAGS RIBBED STYLE, E GERMAN ..Would the 75 drum work with any of the AK? I've read about these big ones having problems with different AKs. Also is it against the law if I do use one of these 76 round drum? If somebody see me with an AK I don't want to explain to the cops why I'm doing something illegal Thanks

boeboe

Unless there is some local or state law prohibiting them, there is nothing illegal about drums. I've never had any problens with AK drums, and never talked to anyone who had. The Chinese drums may have an advantage over the Russian drums in that they can be stored fully loaded with no tension on the spring.If you keep your eyes open and be patient, you can find 75 round AK drums for around $75.00 to $100.00 on gunbroker auctions. I picked up a 100 round drum last spring at auction for $105.00.

lrarmsx

Dar, I've handled AK's for the last 15 years. There have been a lot of variations over that time. The various bans have caused some of the changes of importers, countries of origin, and features. As for what is currently available, the Romanians are probably your best deal. Unlike some of the ones out there, they are all new parts, whether they be Romanian or US parts. Some of the ones currently available are actually being built from used parts along with new US parts. My thought, why pay more for something someone else threw away? As for the Chinese, those who comment on their poor quality usually haven't actually had much hands-on experience with them. Other than their wood, you'll find the Chinese fit and finish to be better than the Romanian or the Egyptian, as well as some of the others. The Hungarian, Bulgarian, and Yugoslavian ones were better than the Chinese in their finishing, but a lot of the others could use some help. As for function, they pretty much all work great. There has been some problems with the US parts in the foreign receivers, but that is just a matter of correct fitting. The ones made entirely overseas have a better track record. Let the people that have been making them for decades do the job, the whole job. As for drums, you can legally use a drum in the guns made for taking a standard double stack magazine. However, as for guns that are post-ban and have enough US parts to have a pistol grip, beware. The Romanians have enough parts in the gun such that you can use any magazine. The Egyptian Maadi's recently imported require that two parts of the magazine be US manufactured or the gun is not legal. You are legal if the mag in the gun has the US follower and US floor plate, but as soon as you grab your buddies all Chinese or Romanian (etc.) magazine and put it in your gun, you have just committed a felony. It sounds silly, but thats the deal. What are the chances you'd ever get caught? Probably slim to none, but what a stupid thing to risk your freedoms on, using the wrong mag. Anyway the reason I'd go with the Romanian is that they are very reasonable right now. They can legally have any mag, even a drum. They legally have the pistol grip and regular stock. And they also have the scope-base standard. Their fit and finish is not the best, but they are acceptable. I've seen the most manufacturing flaws in the Egyptian models, off angle sights (as much as 20 degrees), barrels pinned in the receivers at an off angle, bad sears, etc. The reason I wouldn't recommend the Chinese ones at this time is not due to their quality, but rather their availability, current pricing, and lack of the standard pistol grip and stock so that they look the way most people want them to, unless you get a real pre-ban (1989) and pay big bucks. There were no pre-ban (1989) Romanians (started late 1996-early 1997), Bulgarians (started 1994), Polish (never a complete import, only built in US with used Polish parts), same for several others. Anyway the only pre-1989-ban models came from China, Hungaria, Yugoslavia, Egypt, Finland (if you include the Valmet a 2nd generation AK), and Israel (if you include the Galil, 3rd generation AK). There were of course full autos from various countries brought back from overseas officially or unofficially, I'm just addressing the semi-autos. Buy one and have some fun.

Phil

I sorta like my SAR-3.It's not quite as accurate as my AR-15,but it doesn't need a FORWARD ASSIST on it to help feed rounds that don't wanna feed when the gun gets dirty,and it doesn't have the extremely sorry gas system of the AR-15.Not only that,if I use my own loads,I can get just about as much accuracy as my AR-15 Sporter,though you have to go some to equal the HBAR I built myself.Funny thing,though-even my HBAR,which I put a little dough into,seems to like to misfeed after a couple hundred rounds.I've heard that the Dragonov sniper rifles are quite accurate,but I haven't had the opportunity to try one out.The Kalashnikov design is a good one,though,commie or not.