The answer to my rifle length question

metz

According to the ATF: Shotguns and rifles are required to 26" in over all length. There are no set guidlines for measuring this (gotta love that). The prudent/common method is from tip of muzzle to the farthest back part. Folding weapons are not subject to OAL regulations(hang on to them pre bans boys!!!), they are considered in compliance beacause thet CAN be long enough when extended. They are subject to the minimum barrel length which is 18" for shotguns and 16" for rifles. The AK-47 cannot to the letter of the law have it's butt stock removed for any reason by an unliscenced individual. You would be in violation of manufacturing a short barreled rifle. I believe there is some puke running around my neck of the woods trying entrap people at gun shows. Beware my friends. The ATF agent I spoke to is very (one of the best I have come by)knowledgeable and was perplexed by the situation (not to mention the bullpup part). He was unfamiliar with this specific instance (leave it to metz). He was a good and helpful man, I wonder how long it took him to learn as much as he has. It only took me 5 minutes to confuse him. He was only able to offer the opinion that it was "probably" illegal and he had no clue as to why shotguns and rifle barrels are treated differantly. Or why I was perplexed as to shooting a .45 long colt out of a .410 could I use it with a 16 inch barrel or if I used a .45lc derringer with .410 shells was it a shotgun. Too much stupidity by lawmakers. When I asked if he felt they were going to ever clean it up so we all could understand it(the laws), he hoped so.Andy

metz

They sure can. what promted this was an AK which is about 25-25.25 inches long without a buttstock. They come in folders???? Most guns with 16" barrels will be close and some will be shorter. Anyone with a poly under folder (the side folders stick out from the back)measure it when folded. Now many moons ago, before all this ban * I used to remove stocks, build folders and put them on etc. Now they are a whole differant ball game. My Feather has got to be close also. I just hope all this stupidity gets a quick death. It is so stupid about "stock laws". I don't remember going to range in the last couple years and not seeing at least 1 922 infraction. I feel as Americans we need to tell the government that thier governing body (the atf) regulates receivers and receivers only (they are after all "the gun"). Stocks, muzzle breaks etc are our own business. They are not the bureau of alchohol, tobacco (and why werent they sued?)firearms and folding stocks.Andy

DaRoosta

I completely agree with you about the "stock laws". I don't see how this should play a part in any decision the ATF has to make.I have to admit you lost me when you stated, "They are not the bureau of alchohol, tobacco (and why werent they sued?)firearms and folding stocks." Is this statement meant to imply tobacco companies should be sued or the ATF should be sued and what is the reasoning? I don't want to open up a can of worms, so if you don't want to respond I understand.

metz

Naw, no sweat check out "ba tabacco f" on general disscussion.Andy

JudgeColt

I disagree with metz that functional rifles and shotguns can be less than 26 inches long when their stocks are folded. If you measure a Remington M870 with 18-inch barrel and factory folding stock, it will be over 26 inches in length. The same thing applies to rifles with folding stocks like the AR-180, Ruger Mini-14, Colt CAR, AK variants, etc.. They will all measure at least 26 inches in length when folded. The important factor here is that all of the guns listed above are FUNCTIONAL when the stocks are folded. However, my Kel-Tec Sub-9 is only 16 inches long when folded. The difference is that the Kel-Tec is not functional until unfolded. It therefore does not have to be 26 inches long when folded to be legal. The issue about an AK variant being illegal if the stock is removed is very interesting. I would argue that the rifle is not "functional" with the stock removed, but of course it will still fire so I do not know how far that argument would fly. I would suggest removing the bolt and or other parts to make the rifle non-functional before removing the stock, although that might not save you from an overzealous prosecutor if somehow the situation came to the attention of authorities.That said, I wonder if the statement made by the agent is accurate. In looking at my PolyTech Model AK-47/S Legend, I see it has two tangs attached to the rear of the receiver that make it over 26 inches long even with the stock removed. My underfolder has a boss attached to the rear of the receiver that makes it longer than 26 inches. Perhaps other AK variants lack these features and may be shorter than 26 inches if the stock is removed. Someone with one of the more recent variants should inspect it to see if these tangs are present and tell us. In any event, Beware!I agree that all of these restrictions are burdensome, but they are the law and any violation could subject the unfortunate possessor to prosecution under certain circumstances.

gap1916

Ok Ok Now what is the over all legal length of a Pre Ban M17 Bull Pup. Boy is this confuseing or what.