Saxpig - Ref. 44 mag down load

Boomerang

Here is a quote from a post that I made you were curious about.QUOTE: "BTW, it "HAS BEEN PROVEN AND DOCUMENTED" that down loaded cartridges, especially the partially filled cases do misfire and can cause serious injury and damage to the weapon. This is a common problem with people downloading the 454 Casull because they cannot handle the recoil."Rational for this statement comes directly from employees at Freedom Arms that have had to repair several damaged Freedom Arms Revolvers as a result of shooters downloading the .454 Casull and not using the appropriate powders. Here is scenario of how these explosive conditions occur. A shooter cannot handle the recoil of the .454 Casull so they down load it by reducing the powder charge using the same powders that had used for the full house loads. By doing this they may only fill the case to 60% to 70% of case capacity. Here is usually is the sequence of events that normally occur. 1. The shooter goes to the range and prepares to shoot. 2. Usually the shooter hold the gun in a barrel-down position before they raise it to the ready/firing position. This results in the powder charge moving to the front of the case, so as not to be contact with the primer. 3. The shooter fires the gun, and the powder charge does not ignite due to the excess spacing in the case.4. However, because of the pressures generated from the primer igniting, the bullet is pushed partially down the barrel along with some of the still un-ignited powder charge.5. The shooter having heard the report of the primer igniting thinks that the round has fired.6. He then proceeds to cock the gun to fire the next round while on target.7. Because of very little recoil he was able to keep the gun on target. He does not point the gun in a downward direction.8. The powder charge in the subsequent round has had the powder charge shaken so that it is now in contact with the primer. 9. The stage is now set for potentially a very dangerous condition.10. The shooter fires the second round and ignition of the powder charge occurs.11. The second bullet along with burning powder and gasses are sent down the barrel.12. The second bullet then compresses the remaining powder in the barrel against the first bullet that is lodged in the barrel from the previous incomplete detonation.13. Now, as one can imagine, the remaining powder in the barrel explodes when the burning gases and the two bullets collide14. The barrel ruptures releasing 50,000 cup of hot gases back at the shooter.15. The potential also exists for the revolver to completely break apart causing even more serious injuries to the shooter.Saxon Pig, I hope this has answered your question. BTW, I have seen damage as a result of down loaded rounds.Regards, Boomer

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Protect our Constitutional Rights.

spclark

I've wondered why the "reloading" forum here was dropped a few months ago. Liability concerns over dissemination of knowledge ?The "muzzle down" condition - and the effect of recoil on the next round's charge - is part of what I'd been thinking of in my reply to the earlier thread on .44's. If the charge can move around much, the conditions under which it can function will change; how much depends on a lot of factors.Dacron wadding has been bandied about as a filler (it's cellulose, it'll burn") when I've read of handloading techniques for Cowboy Action Shooting, but the thought makes me cringe.Reloading intent & methodolgy - by the uncautious - is certainly a hazard to all of us.

v35

I have heard of blow-ups involving detonations in bottlenecked cases like the 25-06 and a Whalen caliber owing to very light loads of very slow powders while faster powders seem to work safely.Years ago, I economically fireformed .219 Ackley Imp.Zipper cases with no bullet or filler. Ten grains of 2400 were put in a resized 30-30 case, the barrel pointed skyward and fired. The shoulders were sharp and no case splitting occurred.

Boomerang

Saxonpig - True, the specific information I cited is not documented on paper, it is more anecdotal in nature from those that have had to repair this kind of damage resulting from these situations. Now having said this, just because no one to date has bothered to take the time to document these events does not mean it does not happen or it cannot happen. If they are like me they just shake their heads at the stupidity involved here. My only intent in sharing this information is to possibly keep others from injuring themselves out of ignorance, when it comes to reloading/downloading these rounds.Also you presume that everyone that reloads have a high degree of skill and knowledge. Well, I have learned never to underestimate the stupidity and ignorance man is capable of. As Forest Gump said: Stupid is as Stupid does.Now, if you wish to ignore the information I shared, that is your right. For me, I am not willing to bet my eyesight, nor injury to my hands, nor other body parts that this potentially dangerous condition will NEVER happen; especially, when the experts tell me it happens and happens often, and the fact I have personally seen the damage that results from these kinds of events. Lastly, don't worry guys, I am not going to blow up my Freedom Arms revolver just to document these conditions do occur.Regards, Boomer

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Protect our Constitutional Rights.

v35

I believe the physics of the detonation phenomonon have been explained in terms of wave reflection and reinforcement years ago when the 25-06 was a wildcat.As I stated previously, it had been observed only in large capacity bottlenecked cases with light loads of very slow powder.

metz

That was a very lengthy and eloquent posting. We just call them squibbs down here and most reloaders are savvy, but good point none the less. The .454 has a few unique problems and is prone, by design, to failure. My favorite is the opposite end of the spectrum. Loading up large loads and using JHP's. They will sometimes blow the the led through the jacket leaving the jacket to jam the gun or get lodged in the barrel beacause of the snug tolerance. Thats why I prefer to use the Ruger SBH in .44 mag. It will do anything the .454 will do, except blow up. Andy